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Mon, 25 May 2020 11:52:22 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 4x1LMqNcON--OzXLei6NJg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47A5B1005510; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:52:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.36.110.21] (unknown [10.36.110.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C068F60C47; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:52:18 +0000 (UTC) To: Jerin Jacob , Thomas Monjalon Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Morten_Br=c3=b8rup?= , "Burakov, Anatoly" , dpdk-dev , techboard@dpdk.org, "Jim St. Leger" References: <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35C60FEA@smartserver.smartshare.dk> <2346940.LZvDnYUUCF@thomas> <354a7cf6-788b-debf-1939-541410a1099b@intel.com> <3551245.iDPhyKTcbK@thomas> From: Maxime Coquelin Autocrypt: addr=maxime.coquelin@redhat.com; keydata= mQINBFOEQQIBEADjNLYZZqghYuWv1nlLisptPJp+TSxE/KuP7x47e1Gr5/oMDJ1OKNG8rlNg kLgBQUki3voWhUbMb69ybqdMUHOl21DGCj0BTU3lXwapYXOAnsh8q6RRM+deUpasyT+Jvf3a gU35dgZcomRh5HPmKMU4KfeA38cVUebsFec1HuJAWzOb/UdtQkYyZR4rbzw8SbsOemtMtwOx YdXodneQD7KuRU9IhJKiEfipwqk2pufm2VSGl570l5ANyWMA/XADNhcEXhpkZ1Iwj3TWO7XR uH4xfvPl8nBsLo/EbEI7fbuUULcAnHfowQslPUm6/yaGv6cT5160SPXT1t8U9QDO6aTSo59N jH519JS8oeKZB1n1eLDslCfBpIpWkW8ZElGkOGWAN0vmpLfdyiqBNNyS3eGAfMkJ6b1A24un /TKc6j2QxM0QK4yZGfAxDxtvDv9LFXec8ENJYsbiR6WHRHq7wXl/n8guyh5AuBNQ3LIK44x0 KjGXP1FJkUhUuruGyZsMrDLBRHYi+hhDAgRjqHgoXi5XGETA1PAiNBNnQwMf5aubt+mE2Q5r qLNTgwSo2dpTU3+mJ3y3KlsIfoaxYI7XNsPRXGnZi4hbxmeb2NSXgdCXhX3nELUNYm4ArKBP LugOIT/zRwk0H0+RVwL2zHdMO1Tht1UOFGfOZpvuBF60jhMzbQARAQABtCxNYXhpbWUgQ29x dWVsaW4gPG1heGltZS5jb3F1ZWxpbkByZWRoYXQuY29tPokCOAQTAQIAIgUCV3u/5QIbAwYL CQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQyjiNKEaHD4ma2g/+P+Hg9WkONPaY1J4AR7Uf kBneosS4NO3CRy0x4WYmUSLYMLx1I3VH6SVjqZ6uBoYy6Fs6TbF6SHNc7QbB6Qjo3neqnQR1 71Ua1MFvIob8vUEl3jAR/+oaE1UJKrxjWztpppQTukIk4oJOmXbL0nj3d8dA2QgHdTyttZ1H xzZJWWz6vqxCrUqHU7RSH9iWg9R2iuTzii4/vk1oi4Qz7y/q8ONOq6ffOy/t5xSZOMtZCspu Mll2Szzpc/trFO0pLH4LZZfz/nXh2uuUbk8qRIJBIjZH3ZQfACffgfNefLe2PxMqJZ8mFJXc RQO0ONZvwoOoHL6CcnFZp2i0P5ddduzwPdGsPq1bnIXnZqJSl3dUfh3xG5ArkliZ/++zGF1O wvpGvpIuOgLqjyCNNRoR7cP7y8F24gWE/HqJBXs1qzdj/5Hr68NVPV1Tu/l2D1KMOcL5sOrz 2jLXauqDWn1Okk9hkXAP7+0Cmi6QwAPuBT3i6t2e8UdtMtCE4sLesWS/XohnSFFscZR6Vaf3 gKdWiJ/fW64L6b9gjkWtHd4jAJBAIAx1JM6xcA1xMbAFsD8gA2oDBWogHGYcScY/4riDNKXi lw92d6IEHnSf6y7KJCKq8F+Jrj2BwRJiFKTJ6ChbOpyyR6nGTckzsLgday2KxBIyuh4w+hMq TGDSp2rmWGJjASq5Ag0EVPSbkwEQAMkaNc084Qvql+XW+wcUIY+Dn9A2D1gMr2BVwdSfVDN7 0ZYxo9PvSkzh6eQmnZNQtl8WSHl3VG3IEDQzsMQ2ftZn2sxjcCadexrQQv3Lu60Tgj7YVYRM H+fLYt9W5YuWduJ+FPLbjIKynBf6JCRMWr75QAOhhhaI0tsie3eDsKQBA0w7WCuPiZiheJaL 4MDe9hcH4rM3ybnRW7K2dLszWNhHVoYSFlZGYh+MGpuODeQKDS035+4H2rEWgg+iaOwqD7bg CQXwTZ1kSrm8NxIRVD3MBtzp9SZdUHLfmBl/tLVwDSZvHZhhvJHC6Lj6VL4jPXF5K2+Nn/Su CQmEBisOmwnXZhhu8ulAZ7S2tcl94DCo60ReheDoPBU8PR2TLg8rS5f9w6mLYarvQWL7cDtT d2eX3Z6TggfNINr/RTFrrAd7NHl5h3OnlXj7PQ1f0kfufduOeCQddJN4gsQfxo/qvWVB7PaE 1WTIggPmWS+Xxijk7xG6x9McTdmGhYaPZBpAxewK8ypl5+yubVsE9yOOhKMVo9DoVCjh5To5 aph7CQWfQsV7cd9PfSJjI2lXI0dhEXhQ7lRCFpf3V3mD6CyrhpcJpV6XVGjxJvGUale7+IOp sQIbPKUHpB2F+ZUPWds9yyVxGwDxD8WLqKKy0WLIjkkSsOb9UBNzgRyzrEC9lgQ/ABEBAAGJ Ah8EGAECAAkFAlT0m5MCGwwACgkQyjiNKEaHD4nU8hAAtt0xFJAy0sOWqSmyxTc7FUcX+pbD KVyPlpl6urKKMk1XtVMUPuae/+UwvIt0urk1mXi6DnrAN50TmQqvdjcPTQ6uoZ8zjgGeASZg jj0/bJGhgUr9U7oG7Hh2F8vzpOqZrdd65MRkxmc7bWj1k81tOU2woR/Gy8xLzi0k0KUa8ueB iYOcZcIGTcs9CssVwQjYaXRoeT65LJnTxYZif2pfNxfINFzCGw42s3EtZFteczClKcVSJ1+L +QUY/J24x0/ocQX/M1PwtZbB4c/2Pg/t5FS+s6UB1Ce08xsJDcwyOPIH6O3tccZuriHgvqKP yKz/Ble76+NFlTK1mpUlfM7PVhD5XzrDUEHWRTeTJSvJ8TIPL4uyfzhjHhlkCU0mw7Pscyxn DE8G0UYMEaNgaZap8dcGMYH/96EfE5s/nTX0M6MXV0yots7U2BDb4soLCxLOJz4tAFDtNFtA wLBhXRSvWhdBJZiig/9CG3dXmKfi2H+wdUCSvEFHRpgo7GK8/Kh3vGhgKmnnxhl8ACBaGy9n fxjSxjSO6rj4/MeenmlJw1yebzkX8ZmaSi8BHe+n6jTGEFNrbiOdWpJgc5yHIZZnwXaW54QT UhhSjDL1rV2B4F28w30jYmlRmm2RdN7iCZfbyP3dvFQTzQ4ySquuPkIGcOOHrvZzxbRjzMx1 Mwqu3GQ= Message-ID: <04ce22d8-1e23-5c75-5947-44c8bca040d5@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 17:52:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.12 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [dpdk-techboard] Consider improving the DPDK contribution processes X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dev-bounces@dpdk.org Sender: "dev" On 5/25/20 5:35 PM, Jerin Jacob wrote: > On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 8:52 PM Thomas Monjalon wrote: >> >> 25/05/2020 16:28, Burakov, Anatoly: >>> On 25-May-20 1:53 PM, Thomas Monjalon wrote: >>>> 25/05/2020 13:58, Jerin Jacob: >>>>> 25/05/2020 11:34, Morten Brørup: >>>>>> sending patches over an >>>>>> email as opposed to a well-integrated web interface workflow is so alien >>>>>> to most people that it definitely does discourage new contributions. >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand the advantages of mailing lists (vendor independence, >>>>>> universal compatibility, etc.), but after doing reviews in Github/Gitlab >>>>>> for a while (we use those internally), going through DPDK mailing list >>>>>> and reviewing code over email fills me with existential dread, as the >>>>>> process feels so manual and 19th century to me. >>>>> >>>>> Agree. I had a difference in opinion when I was not using those tools. >>>>> My perspective changed after using Github and Gerrit etc. >>>>> >>>>> Github pull request and integrated public CI(Travis, Shippable , >>>>> codecov) makes collaboration easy. >>>>> Currently, in patchwork, we can not assign a patch other than the set >>>>> of maintainers. >>>>> I think, it would help the review process if the more fine-grained >>>>> owner will be responsible for specific >>>>> patch set. >>>> >>>> The more fine-grain is achieved with Cc in mail. >>>> But I understand not everybody knows/wants/can configure correctly >>>> an email client. Emails are not easy for everybody, I agree. >>>> >>>> I use GitHub as well, and I really prefer the clarity of the mail threads. >>>> GitHub reviews tend to be line-focused, messy and not discussion-friendly. >>>> I think contribution quality would be worst if using GitHub. >>> >>> I have more experience with Gitlab than Github, but i really don't see >>> it that way. >>> >>> For one, reviewing in Gitlab makes it easier to see context in which >>> changes appear. I mean, obviously, you can download the patch, apply it, >>> and then do whatever you want with it in your editor/IDE, but it's just >>> so much faster to do it right in the browser. Reviewing things with >>> proper syntax highlighting and side-by-side diff with an option to see >>> more context really makes a huge difference and is that much faster. >> >> OK >> >> >>> I would also vehemently disagree with the "clarity" argument. There is >>> enforced minimum standard of clarity of discussion in a tool such as >>> Gitlab. I'm sure you noticed that some people top-post, some >>> bottom-post. Some will remove extraneous lines of patches while some >>> will leave on comment in a 10K line patch and leave the rest as is, in >>> quotes. Some people do weird quoting where they don't actually quote but >>> just copy text verbatim, making it hard to determine where the quote >>> starts. If the thread is long enough, you'd see the same text quoted >>> over and over and over. All of that is not a problem within a single >>> patch email, but it adds up to lots of wasted time on all sides. >> >> Yes >> >> My concern about clarity is the history of the discussion. >> When we post a new versions in GitHub, it's very hard to keep track >> of the history. >> As a maintainer, I need to see the history to understand what happened, >> what we are waiting for, and what should be merged. > > IMO, The complete history is available per pull request URL. > I think, Github also email notification mechanism those to prefer to see > comments in the email too. > > In addition to that, Bugzilla, patchwork, CI stuff all integrated into > one place. > I am quite impressed with vscode community collaboration. > https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/pulls Out of curiosity, just checked the git history and I'm not that impressed. For example last commit on the master branch: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/commit/2a4cecf3f2f72346d06990feeb7446b3915d6148 Commit title: " Fix #98530 " Commit message empty, no explanation on what the patch is doing. Then, let's check the the issue it is pointed to: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/98530 Issue is created 15 minutes before the patch is being merged. All that done by the same contributor, without any review.