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Fri, 08 Nov 2019 08:56:45 -0500 To: Thomas Monjalon Cc: dev@dpdk.org, stephen@networkplumber.org, bruce.richardson@intel.com, ferruh.yigit@intel.com, konstantin.ananyev@intel.com, jerinj@marvell.com, olivier.matz@6wind.com, nhorman@tuxdriver.com, maxime.coquelin@redhat.com, john.mcnamara@intel.com, marko.kovacevic@intel.com, hemant.agrawal@nxp.com, ktraynor@redhat.com, aconole@redhat.com References: <1572967458-16487-1-git-send-email-mdr@ashroe.eu> <2325188.Q6BSOo8498@xps> <070cba22-4e70-032a-cf34-16015b916e75@ashroe.eu> <2076195.DiE3OUsusb@xps> From: Ray Kinsella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mdr@ashroe.eu; keydata= mQINBFv8B3wBEAC+5ImcgbIvadt3axrTnt7Sxch3FsmWTTomXfB8YiuHT8KL8L/bFRQSL1f6 ASCHu3M89EjYazlY+vJUWLr0BhK5t/YI7bQzrOuYrl9K94vlLwzD19s/zB/g5YGGR5plJr0s JtJsFGEvF9LL3e+FKMRXveQxBB8A51nAHfwG0WSyx53d61DYz7lp4/Y4RagxaJoHp9lakn8j HV2N6rrnF+qt5ukj5SbbKWSzGg5HQF2t0QQ5tzWhCAKTfcPlnP0GymTBfNMGOReWivi3Qqzr S51Xo7hoGujUgNAM41sxpxmhx8xSwcQ5WzmxgAhJ/StNV9cb3HWIoE5StCwQ4uXOLplZNGnS uxNdegvKB95NHZjRVRChg/uMTGpg9PqYbTIFoPXjuk27sxZLRJRrueg4tLbb3HM39CJwSB++ YICcqf2N+GVD48STfcIlpp12/HI+EcDSThzfWFhaHDC0hyirHxJyHXjnZ8bUexI/5zATn/ux TpMbc/vicJxeN+qfaVqPkCbkS71cHKuPluM3jE8aNCIBNQY1/j87k5ELzg3qaesLo2n1krBH bKvFfAmQuUuJT84/IqfdVtrSCTabvDuNBDpYBV0dGbTwaRfE7i+LiJJclUr8lOvHUpJ4Y6a5 0cxEPxm498G12Z3NoY/mP5soItPIPtLR0rA0fage44zSPwp6cQARAQABtBxSYXkgS2luc2Vs bGEgPG1kckBhc2hyb2UuZXU+iQJUBBMBCAA+FiEEcDUDlKDJaDuJlfZfdJdaH/sCCpsFAlv8 B3wCGyMFCQlmAYAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQdJdaH/sCCptdtRAAl0oE msa+djBVYLIsax+0f8acidtWg2l9f7kc2hEjp9h9aZCpPchQvhhemtew/nKavik3RSnLTAyn B3C/0GNlmvI1l5PFROOgPZwz4xhJKGN7jOsRrbkJa23a8ly5UXwF3Vqnlny7D3z+7cu1qq/f VRK8qFyWkAb+xgqeZ/hTcbJUWtW+l5Zb+68WGEp8hB7TuJLEWb4+VKgHTpQ4vElYj8H3Z94a 04s2PJMbLIZSgmKDASnyrKY0CzTpPXx5rSJ1q+B1FCsfepHLqt3vKSALa3ld6bJ8fSJtDUJ7 JLiU8dFZrywgDIVme01jPbjJtUScW6jONLvhI8Z2sheR71UoKqGomMHNQpZ03ViVWBEALzEt TcjWgJFn8yAmxqM4nBnZ+hE3LbMo34KCHJD4eg18ojDt3s9VrDLa+V9fNxUHPSib9FD9UX/1 +nGfU/ZABmiTuUDM7WZdXri7HaMpzDRJUKI6b+/uunF8xH/h/MHW16VuMzgI5dkOKKv1LejD dT5mA4R+2zBS+GsM0oa2hUeX9E5WwjaDzXtVDg6kYq8YvEd+m0z3M4e6diFeLS77/sAOgaYL 92UcoKD+Beym/fVuC6/55a0e12ksTmgk5/ZoEdoNQLlVgd2INtvnO+0k5BJcn66ZjKn3GbEC VqFbrnv1GnA58nEInRCTzR1k26h9nmS5Ag0EW/wHfAEQAMth1vHr3fOZkVOPfod3M6DkQir5 xJvUW5EHgYUjYCPIa2qzgIVVuLDqZgSCCinyooG5dUJONVHj3nCbITCpJp4eB3PI84RPfDcC hf/V34N/Gx5mTeoymSZDBmXT8YtvV/uJvn+LvHLO4ZJdvq5ZxmDyxfXFmkm3/lLw0+rrNdK5 pt6OnVlCqEU9tcDBezjUwDtOahyV20XqxtUttN4kQWbDRkhT+HrA9WN9l2HX91yEYC+zmF1S OhBqRoTPLrR6g4sCWgFywqztpvZWhyIicJipnjac7qL/wRS+wrWfsYy6qWLIV80beN7yoa6v ccnuy4pu2uiuhk9/edtlmFE4dNdoRf7843CV9k1yRASTlmPkU59n0TJbw+okTa9fbbQgbIb1 pWsAuicRHyLUIUz4f6kPgdgty2FgTKuPuIzJd1s8s6p2aC1qo+Obm2gnBTduB+/n1Jw+vKpt 07d+CKEKu4CWwvZZ8ktJJLeofi4hMupTYiq+oMzqH+V1k6QgNm0Da489gXllU+3EFC6W1qKj tkvQzg2rYoWeYD1Qn8iXcO4Fpk6wzylclvatBMddVlQ6qrYeTmSbCsk+m2KVrz5vIyja0o5Y yfeN29s9emXnikmNfv/dA5fpi8XCANNnz3zOfA93DOB9DBf0TQ2/OrSPGjB3op7RCfoPBZ7u AjJ9dM7VABEBAAGJAjwEGAEIACYWIQRwNQOUoMloO4mV9l90l1of+wIKmwUCW/wHfAIbDAUJ CWYBgAAKCRB0l1of+wIKm3KlD/9w/LOG5rtgtCUWPl4B3pZvGpNym6XdK8cop9saOnE85zWf u+sKWCrxNgYkYP7aZrYMPwqDvilxhbTsIJl5HhPgpTO1b0i+c0n1Tij3EElj5UCg3q8mEc17 c+5jRrY3oz77g7E3oPftAjaq1ybbXjY4K32o3JHFR6I8wX3m9wJZJe1+Y+UVrrjY65gZFxcA thNVnWKErarVQGjeNgHV4N1uF3pIx3kT1N4GSnxhoz4Bki91kvkbBhUgYfNflGURfZT3wIKK +d50jd7kqRouXUCzTdzmDh7jnYrcEFM4nvyaYu0JjSS5R672d9SK5LVIfWmoUGzqD4AVmUW8 pcv461+PXchuS8+zpltR9zajl72Q3ymlT4BTAQOlCWkD0snBoKNUB5d2EXPNV13nA0qlm4U2 GpROfJMQXjV6fyYRvttKYfM5xYKgRgtP0z5lTAbsjg9WFKq0Fndh7kUlmHjuAIwKIV4Tzo75 QO2zC0/NTaTjmrtiXhP+vkC4pcrOGNsbHuaqvsc/ZZ0siXyYsqbctj/sCd8ka2r94u+c7o4l BGaAm+FtwAfEAkXHu4y5Phuv2IRR+x1wTey1U1RaEPgN8xq0LQ1OitX4t2mQwjdPihZQBCnZ wzOrkbzlJMNrMKJpEgulmxAHmYJKgvZHXZXtLJSejFjR0GdHJcL5rwVOMWB8cg== Message-ID: <5f850cb8-40f7-6951-7105-af13c5843eb2@ashroe.eu> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:09:25 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2076195.DiE3OUsusb@xps> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AuthUser: mdr@ashroe.eu Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v8 2/4] doc: changes to abi policy introducing major abi versions X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dev-bounces@dpdk.org Sender: "dev" On 06/11/2019 21:07, Thomas Monjalon wrote: > Hi, > Please find the techboard comments below. > > 06/11/2019 10:22, Ray Kinsella: >> On 06/11/2019 09:06, Thomas Monjalon wrote: >>> 06/11/2019 09:49, Ray Kinsella: >>>> On 06/11/2019 00:11, Thomas Monjalon wrote: >>>>> 05/11/2019 16:24, Ray Kinsella: >>>>>> +#. Major ABI versions are declared every **year** and are then supported for one >>>>>> + year, typically aligned with the :ref:`LTS release `. >>>>> >>>>> As discussed earlier, a major ABI version can be declared less often >>>>> than one year in the future. >>>>> An ABI is supported more than one year, because of the LTS branches. >>>>> That's why I propose to replace with this sentence: >>>>> " >>>>> Major ABI versions are declared regularly and are then supported for >>>>> at least one year, typically aligned with the :ref:`LTS release `. >>>>> " >>>> >>>> So look, this one was a decision of the technical board. >>> >>> The techboard didn't decide to change the ABI every year. >>> We decided to review the duration after the first year, with a plan to extend. >>> >>>> My position is still what was agreed was, "declared every year, and supported for one year". >>>> I like it, it's crystal clear what is the policy, until we change the policy. >>> >>> I think it gives a wrong message. >>> >>>> That said, I can make the change no problem, but I need some others to chime in to ok it. >>>> Perhaps at the head of the Techboard today? >>> >>> Yes I add it to the techboard meeting. > > The techboard propose other rewords: > "supported" may be replaced with "compatibility is enforced" > "every year" may be replaced with "no more frequently than every year" > "declared" may be replaced with "could be declared" > > I think you got the idea. Please adjust wording to something more accurate. > > ### ACK - done in v9 > >>>>>> +A major ABI version is declared every year, aligned with that year's LTS >>>>>> +release, e.g. v19.11. This ABI version is then supported for one year by all >>>>>> +subsequent releases within that time period, until the next LTS release, e.g. >>>>>> +v20.11. >>>>> >>>>> Let's reword like this: >>>>> " >>>>> A new major ABI version can be declared when a new LTS branch is started, > > It has been suggested to replace "can" with "may". ACK - I loosened the wording as described above "no more frequently than every year" etc in v9 > >>>>> e.g. ABI 19 for DPDK 19.11.0. >>>>> This major ABI version is then supported until the next one, >>>>> e.g. ABI 20 for DPDK 20.11.0. >>>>> All ABI changes must be detailed in the release notes. >>>>> " > > My reword is wrong because ABI versions should be 20 and 21 respectively. ACK - fixed > >>>> This is more ambiguous, although what I said above stands. >>> >>> What you said is wrong because of 2 reasons: >>> - it is not always one year for an major ABI >> >> Well that is a point of disagreement. > > The techboard agreed to remove "every year". ACK - loosened the wording. >> >>> - it is always longer because of LTS branch >> >> Well I was pretty careful to qualify the ABI policy applies to releases over the year. >> To distinguish it from LTS branch. > > As above, we may replace "ABI is supported" with > "ABI compatibility is enforced". > >>>> If there is general agreement with changing this part of the policy, I am ok to make >>>> the change. >>> >>> Yes let's review with the techboard. > > Please try to reflect techboard comments while keeping something understandable :) > > ### ACK - yes, it is readable. > >>>>>> + ABI breakages due to changes such as reorganizing public >>>>>> + structure fields for aesthetic or readability purposes should be avoided. >>>>> >>>>> Why it should be avoided? >>>>> If the ABI is broken anyway, I don't see any reason to not break it more. >>>> >>>> This is text from the original ABI Policy - I think the general sentiment still stands. >>>> Just because you have an ABI Breakage window doesn't mean you should feel free to break >>>> the ABI. The 3 ACKs required from Technical Board member to change the ABI, are another >>>> reflection of this. >>>> >>>> As a general rule. >>>> Unnecessary changes should still be avoided, to reduce ABI churn between ABI versions. >>> >>> I agree we must avoid unnecessary API changes because it requires apps to adapt. >>> But if the change is only ABI, and we are in an ABI-change window, >>> I don't see any issue > > The techboard agrees that the ABI changes are unlimited but API changes must be avoided. > It is suggested to replace "ABI" with "API". I think this reword is better: > " > API changes such as reorganizing public structure fields > for aesthetic or readability purposes should be avoided. > " > > ### ACK - done > >>>>>> +Libraries marked as ``experimental`` are entirely not considered part of an ABI >>>>>> +version, and may change without warning at any time. Experimental libraries >>>>>> +always have a major version of ``0`` to indicate they exist outside of >>>>>> +ABI Versioning, with the minor version incremented with each ABI change >>>>>> +to library. >>>>> >>>>> It means not all libraries will have the same ABI version. >>>>> It is contrary of "ABI version is managed at a project level", >>>>> and I don't see a real benefit of a different version number. >>>> >>>> There is a benefit, major version 0 is a very clear indication that >>>> the library exists outside of ABI management. >>>> A library isn't in the ABI, until it is in the ABI - an then it gets >>>> added to the major version number. >>>> >>>>> Anyway, some experimental functions can live inside a library >>>>> with a stable ABI version number >>>> >>>> True, but if an entire library is experimental - let's be crystal >>>> clear about that. >>> >>> I would like to see what others think. > > The techboard decided to keep this policy: .0 for pure experimental libs. > >