From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from dpdk.org (dpdk.org [92.243.14.124]) by inbox.dpdk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FED4A04A4; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [92.243.14.124] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dpdk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03AA61D91B; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-3.sys.kth.se (smtp-3.sys.kth.se [130.237.48.192]) by dpdk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428391D918; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-3.sys.kth.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-3.sys.kth.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51919EF1; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kth.se Received: from smtp-3.sys.kth.se ([127.0.0.1]) by smtp-3.sys.kth.se (smtp-3.sys.kth.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id dk5H0SWap3JU; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:45 +0200 (CEST) X-KTH-Auth: barbette [2a02:a03f:4070:7c00:ed3a:b171:e760:325d] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kth.se; s=default; t=1590476805; bh=Ww/jZZsS2jcdk+tQu7GML3KNKevzvVfLKGmfuAOuwsc=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ioC6iPV7y2Hmm3aX1rxMZ45X9GS2WDB4vEJ/Y3hMZWPEo4ho4aHRoD8M2tfgr2emG 5J4OFp8/0p4EukmkoLKyZM7CXWyBgeQnwrHndGJKum1DpQjtcaMM9Ur9sWfX1UyaCf uWjm9jTO3sPvpNet/mQ89BSYb1eON58qzLnS2WT4= X-KTH-mail-from: barbette@kth.se Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a03f:4070:7c00:ed3a:b171:e760:325d] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a03f:4070:7c00:ed3a:b171:e760:325d]) by smtp-3.sys.kth.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E69A732CD; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:43 +0200 (CEST) To: Thomas Monjalon , Jerin Jacob , "Burakov, Anatoly" , =?UTF-8?Q?Morten_Br=c3=b8rup?= Cc: Maxime Coquelin , dpdk-dev , techboard@dpdk.org, "Jim St. Leger" References: <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35C60FEA@smartserver.smartshare.dk> <11959277.FkLDZFFinP@thomas> <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35C60FF5@smartserver.smartshare.dk> <1854859.fY831ScpFY@thomas> From: Tom Barbette Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 09:06:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1854859.fY831ScpFY@thomas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [dpdk-techboard] Consider improving the DPDKcontribution processes X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dev-bounces@dpdk.org Sender: "dev" Le 25/05/2020 à 22:34, Thomas Monjalon a écrit : > 25/05/2020 20:44, Morten Brørup: >> From: Thomas Monjalon >>> 25/05/2020 18:09, Burakov, Anatoly: >>>> obviously, but i have a suspicion that we'll get more of it if we >>> lower >>>> the barrier for entry (not the barrier for merge!). I think there is >>> a >>>> way to lower the secondary skill level needed to contribute to DPDK >>>> without lowering coding/merge standards with it. >> >> That is exactly what I am asking for: Lowering the barrier and increasing the feeling of success for newcomers. (The barrier for merge is probably fine; I'll leave that discussion to the maintainers.) > > I understand. > > >>> About the barrier for entry, maybe it is not obvious because I don't >>> communicate a lot about it, but please be aware that I (and other >>> maintainers I think) are doing a lot of changes in newcomer patches >>> to avoid asking them knowing the whole process from the beginning. >>> Then frequent contributors get educated on the way. >> >> Great! I wish that every developer would think and behave this way. >> >>> >>> I think the only real barrier we have is to sign the patch >>> with a real name and send an email to right list. >>> The ask for SoB real name is probably what started this thread >>> in Morten's mind. And the SoB requirement will *never* change. >> >> The incorrect Signed-off-by might be the only hard barrier (which we cannot avoid). But that did not trigger me. >> >> I was raising the discussion to bring attention to soft barriers for contributors. What triggered me was the request to split the patch into multiple patches; a kind of feedback I have seen before. For an experienced git user, this is probably very easy, but for a git newbie (like myself), it basically means starting all over and trying to figure out the right set of git commands to do this, which can be perceived as a difficult task requiring a lot of effort. > > Yes I am aware about this difficulty. > It is basically knowing git-reset and git-add -p. > I agree a cookbook for this kind of thing is required. > > I would like to do the split for newcomers, > but we need also to validate the explanations of each commit. > A solution in such case is to send the split so the newbie can just > fill what is missing. > This kind of workflow is really what we should look at improving. > > >> Perhaps we could supplement the Contributor Guidelines with a set of cookbooks for different steps in the contribution process, so reviewers can be refer newcomers to the relevant of these as part of the feedback. Just like any professional customer support team has a set of canned answers ready for common customer issues. (Please note: I am not suggesting adding an AI/ML chat bot reviewer to the mailing list!) > > OK > > >> The amount of Contributor Guideline documentation is also a balance... it must be long enough to contain the relevant information to get going, but short enough for newcomers to bother reading it. > > Yes, we need short intros and long explanations when really needed. > It is touching another issue: we lack some documentation love. > > Maybe we could find something that allows to "git push" to the patchwork, where it kind of appears already as a github-like discussion? It doesn't miss a lot to enable writing from the website directly (basically auto-email). Personnaly I've put a lot of efforts to fix simple comments, be sure that I wrote "v2" here, sign-off there, cc-ed the right person, not mess my the format-patch versions, changed only the cover letter, ... Quite afraid of bothering that big mailing list for nothing. I'm infrequent enough to have te re-learn every time basically. It would be much easier with a git push, a fast online review of the diff, as on github/gitlab, and done. Also, those allow online edits, and therefore allows "elders" to do small fixes directly in the "patch". Some fixes are not worth the discussion and the chain of mails. That's what I'm missing the most personnaly. Tom