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Tue, 26 May 2020 03:31:29 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 2hBrI2cuN1yQ3394kvMqDg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CB9C107ACCD; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:31:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.36.110.21] (unknown [10.36.110.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0529179C2C; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:31:24 +0000 (UTC) To: Tom Barbette , Thomas Monjalon , Jerin Jacob , "Burakov, Anatoly" , =?UTF-8?Q?Morten_Br=c3=b8rup?= Cc: dpdk-dev , techboard@dpdk.org, "Jim St. Leger" References: <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35C60FEA@smartserver.smartshare.dk> <11959277.FkLDZFFinP@thomas> <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35C60FF5@smartserver.smartshare.dk> <1854859.fY831ScpFY@thomas> From: Maxime Coquelin Autocrypt: addr=maxime.coquelin@redhat.com; keydata= mQINBFOEQQIBEADjNLYZZqghYuWv1nlLisptPJp+TSxE/KuP7x47e1Gr5/oMDJ1OKNG8rlNg kLgBQUki3voWhUbMb69ybqdMUHOl21DGCj0BTU3lXwapYXOAnsh8q6RRM+deUpasyT+Jvf3a gU35dgZcomRh5HPmKMU4KfeA38cVUebsFec1HuJAWzOb/UdtQkYyZR4rbzw8SbsOemtMtwOx YdXodneQD7KuRU9IhJKiEfipwqk2pufm2VSGl570l5ANyWMA/XADNhcEXhpkZ1Iwj3TWO7XR uH4xfvPl8nBsLo/EbEI7fbuUULcAnHfowQslPUm6/yaGv6cT5160SPXT1t8U9QDO6aTSo59N jH519JS8oeKZB1n1eLDslCfBpIpWkW8ZElGkOGWAN0vmpLfdyiqBNNyS3eGAfMkJ6b1A24un /TKc6j2QxM0QK4yZGfAxDxtvDv9LFXec8ENJYsbiR6WHRHq7wXl/n8guyh5AuBNQ3LIK44x0 KjGXP1FJkUhUuruGyZsMrDLBRHYi+hhDAgRjqHgoXi5XGETA1PAiNBNnQwMf5aubt+mE2Q5r qLNTgwSo2dpTU3+mJ3y3KlsIfoaxYI7XNsPRXGnZi4hbxmeb2NSXgdCXhX3nELUNYm4ArKBP LugOIT/zRwk0H0+RVwL2zHdMO1Tht1UOFGfOZpvuBF60jhMzbQARAQABtCxNYXhpbWUgQ29x dWVsaW4gPG1heGltZS5jb3F1ZWxpbkByZWRoYXQuY29tPokCOAQTAQIAIgUCV3u/5QIbAwYL CQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQyjiNKEaHD4ma2g/+P+Hg9WkONPaY1J4AR7Uf kBneosS4NO3CRy0x4WYmUSLYMLx1I3VH6SVjqZ6uBoYy6Fs6TbF6SHNc7QbB6Qjo3neqnQR1 71Ua1MFvIob8vUEl3jAR/+oaE1UJKrxjWztpppQTukIk4oJOmXbL0nj3d8dA2QgHdTyttZ1H xzZJWWz6vqxCrUqHU7RSH9iWg9R2iuTzii4/vk1oi4Qz7y/q8ONOq6ffOy/t5xSZOMtZCspu Mll2Szzpc/trFO0pLH4LZZfz/nXh2uuUbk8qRIJBIjZH3ZQfACffgfNefLe2PxMqJZ8mFJXc RQO0ONZvwoOoHL6CcnFZp2i0P5ddduzwPdGsPq1bnIXnZqJSl3dUfh3xG5ArkliZ/++zGF1O wvpGvpIuOgLqjyCNNRoR7cP7y8F24gWE/HqJBXs1qzdj/5Hr68NVPV1Tu/l2D1KMOcL5sOrz 2jLXauqDWn1Okk9hkXAP7+0Cmi6QwAPuBT3i6t2e8UdtMtCE4sLesWS/XohnSFFscZR6Vaf3 gKdWiJ/fW64L6b9gjkWtHd4jAJBAIAx1JM6xcA1xMbAFsD8gA2oDBWogHGYcScY/4riDNKXi lw92d6IEHnSf6y7KJCKq8F+Jrj2BwRJiFKTJ6ChbOpyyR6nGTckzsLgday2KxBIyuh4w+hMq TGDSp2rmWGJjASq5Ag0EVPSbkwEQAMkaNc084Qvql+XW+wcUIY+Dn9A2D1gMr2BVwdSfVDN7 0ZYxo9PvSkzh6eQmnZNQtl8WSHl3VG3IEDQzsMQ2ftZn2sxjcCadexrQQv3Lu60Tgj7YVYRM H+fLYt9W5YuWduJ+FPLbjIKynBf6JCRMWr75QAOhhhaI0tsie3eDsKQBA0w7WCuPiZiheJaL 4MDe9hcH4rM3ybnRW7K2dLszWNhHVoYSFlZGYh+MGpuODeQKDS035+4H2rEWgg+iaOwqD7bg CQXwTZ1kSrm8NxIRVD3MBtzp9SZdUHLfmBl/tLVwDSZvHZhhvJHC6Lj6VL4jPXF5K2+Nn/Su CQmEBisOmwnXZhhu8ulAZ7S2tcl94DCo60ReheDoPBU8PR2TLg8rS5f9w6mLYarvQWL7cDtT d2eX3Z6TggfNINr/RTFrrAd7NHl5h3OnlXj7PQ1f0kfufduOeCQddJN4gsQfxo/qvWVB7PaE 1WTIggPmWS+Xxijk7xG6x9McTdmGhYaPZBpAxewK8ypl5+yubVsE9yOOhKMVo9DoVCjh5To5 aph7CQWfQsV7cd9PfSJjI2lXI0dhEXhQ7lRCFpf3V3mD6CyrhpcJpV6XVGjxJvGUale7+IOp sQIbPKUHpB2F+ZUPWds9yyVxGwDxD8WLqKKy0WLIjkkSsOb9UBNzgRyzrEC9lgQ/ABEBAAGJ Ah8EGAECAAkFAlT0m5MCGwwACgkQyjiNKEaHD4nU8hAAtt0xFJAy0sOWqSmyxTc7FUcX+pbD KVyPlpl6urKKMk1XtVMUPuae/+UwvIt0urk1mXi6DnrAN50TmQqvdjcPTQ6uoZ8zjgGeASZg jj0/bJGhgUr9U7oG7Hh2F8vzpOqZrdd65MRkxmc7bWj1k81tOU2woR/Gy8xLzi0k0KUa8ueB iYOcZcIGTcs9CssVwQjYaXRoeT65LJnTxYZif2pfNxfINFzCGw42s3EtZFteczClKcVSJ1+L +QUY/J24x0/ocQX/M1PwtZbB4c/2Pg/t5FS+s6UB1Ce08xsJDcwyOPIH6O3tccZuriHgvqKP yKz/Ble76+NFlTK1mpUlfM7PVhD5XzrDUEHWRTeTJSvJ8TIPL4uyfzhjHhlkCU0mw7Pscyxn DE8G0UYMEaNgaZap8dcGMYH/96EfE5s/nTX0M6MXV0yots7U2BDb4soLCxLOJz4tAFDtNFtA wLBhXRSvWhdBJZiig/9CG3dXmKfi2H+wdUCSvEFHRpgo7GK8/Kh3vGhgKmnnxhl8ACBaGy9n fxjSxjSO6rj4/MeenmlJw1yebzkX8ZmaSi8BHe+n6jTGEFNrbiOdWpJgc5yHIZZnwXaW54QT UhhSjDL1rV2B4F28w30jYmlRmm2RdN7iCZfbyP3dvFQTzQ4ySquuPkIGcOOHrvZzxbRjzMx1 Mwqu3GQ= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 09:31:22 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.11 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [dpdk-techboard] Consider improving the DPDKcontribution processes X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dev-bounces@dpdk.org Sender: "dev" On 5/26/20 9:06 AM, Tom Barbette wrote: > Le 25/05/2020 à 22:34, Thomas Monjalon a écrit : >> 25/05/2020 20:44, Morten Brørup: >>> From: Thomas Monjalon >>>> 25/05/2020 18:09, Burakov, Anatoly: >>>>> obviously, but i have a suspicion that we'll get more of it if we >>>> lower >>>>> the barrier for entry (not the barrier for merge!). I think there is >>>> a >>>>> way to lower the secondary skill level needed to contribute to DPDK >>>>> without lowering coding/merge standards with it. >>> >>> That is exactly what I am asking for: Lowering the barrier and >>> increasing the feeling of success for newcomers. (The barrier for >>> merge is probably fine; I'll leave that discussion to the maintainers.) >> >> I understand. >> >> >>>> About the barrier for entry, maybe it is not obvious because I don't >>>> communicate a lot about it, but please be aware that I (and other >>>> maintainers I think) are doing a lot of changes in newcomer patches >>>> to avoid asking them knowing the whole process from the beginning. >>>> Then frequent contributors get educated on the way. >>> >>> Great! I wish that every developer would think and behave this way. >>> >>>> >>>> I think the only real barrier we have is to sign the patch >>>> with a real name and send an email to right list. >>>> The ask for SoB real name is probably what started this thread >>>> in Morten's mind. And the SoB requirement will *never* change. >>> >>> The incorrect Signed-off-by might be the only hard barrier (which we >>> cannot avoid). But that did not trigger me. >>> >>> I was raising the discussion to bring attention to soft barriers for >>> contributors. What triggered me was the request to split the patch >>> into multiple patches; a kind of feedback I have seen before. For an >>> experienced git user, this is probably very easy, but for a git >>> newbie (like myself), it basically means starting all over and trying >>> to figure out the right set of git commands to do this, which can be >>> perceived as a difficult task requiring a lot of effort. >> >> Yes I am aware about this difficulty. >> It is basically knowing git-reset and git-add -p. >> I agree a cookbook for this kind of thing is required. >> >> I would like to do the split for newcomers, >> but we need also to validate the explanations of each commit. >> A solution in such case is to send the split so the newbie can just >> fill what is missing. >> This kind of workflow is really what we should look at improving. >> >> >>> Perhaps we could supplement the Contributor Guidelines with a set of >>> cookbooks for different steps in the contribution process, so >>> reviewers can be refer newcomers to the relevant of these as part of >>> the feedback. Just like any professional customer support team has a >>> set of canned answers ready for common customer issues. (Please note: >>> I am not suggesting adding an AI/ML chat bot reviewer to the mailing >>> list!) >> >> OK >> >> >>> The amount of Contributor Guideline documentation is also a >>> balance... it must be long enough to contain the relevant information >>> to get going, but short enough for newcomers to bother reading it. >> >> Yes, we need short intros and long explanations when really needed. >> It is touching another issue: we lack some documentation love. >> >> > > > Maybe we could find something that allows to "git push" to the > patchwork, where it kind of appears already as a github-like discussion? >  It doesn't miss a lot to enable writing from the website directly > (basically auto-email). > > Personnaly I've put a lot of efforts to fix simple comments, be sure > that I wrote "v2" here, sign-off there, cc-ed the right person, not mess > my the format-patch versions, changed only the cover letter, ... Quite > afraid of bothering that big mailing list for nothing. Maybe using git-publish would help here: https://github.com/stefanha/git-publish Using the simple git-puslish command, it manages revisions automatically, open an editor for the cover letter, can run some scripts to add proper maintainers, and hook available to run basic checks, etc... We could add a .gitpublish file to automate adding right maintainers depending on the branch, etc... For example, for Qemu the .gitpublish file looks like this: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/blob/master/.gitpublish > I'm infrequent enough to have te re-learn every time basically. It would > be much easier with a git push, a fast online review of the diff, as on > github/gitlab, and done. Also, those allow online edits, and therefore > allows "elders" to do small fixes directly in the "patch". Some fixes > are not worth the discussion and the chain of mails. That's what I'm > missing the most personnaly. > > Tom >