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boundary="_000_AM5PR0801MB20517D17BFC3DDB2D9E1132A95AE0AM5PR0801MB2051_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Oct 2016 15:20:31.8172 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0801MB2052 Subject: Re: [dpdk-moving] description of technical governance X-BeenThere: moving@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK community structure changes <moving.dpdk.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://dpdk.org/ml/options/moving>, <mailto:moving-request@dpdk.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://dpdk.org/ml/archives/moving/> List-Post: <mailto:moving@dpdk.org> List-Help: <mailto:moving-request@dpdk.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://dpdk.org/ml/listinfo/moving>, <mailto:moving-request@dpdk.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:20:33 -0000 --_000_AM5PR0801MB20517D17BFC3DDB2D9E1132A95AE0AM5PR0801MB2051_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the responses. I'm really looking forward to the debate later t= oday! One point I would raise, and it is one that Thomas picked up on a bit. I d= on't think we can have a pure meritocracy /and/ expect some of the membersh= ip to pay to support the project management. I am going to have a very har= d time explaining to my exec why we should be spending $$$ on DPDK when the= re is no clear benefit to membership. Comparisons have ben made to the OVS project, which is fine, but OVS does n= ot have any membership costs (as far as I can see) and LF host this project= for free. I don't think we can have both of these positions hold true. We either hav= e 1 - a pure meritocracy - ie the governance does not change and I believe w= e are in the same position as we are today 2 - Something a bit more like FD.io, with paid membership and paid access = to a board/TSC Regards Matt ________________________________ From: Vincent Jardin <vincent.jardin@6wind.com> Sent: 28 October 2016 23:54:13 To: Thomas Monjalon; moving@dpdk.org; Matt Spencer Subject: Re: [dpdk-moving] description of technical governance Le 28 octobre 2016 9:22:43 PM Thomas Monjalon <thomas.monjalon@6wind.com> a =E9crit : > 2016-10-28 16:52, Matt Spencer: >> 1 - we adopt the model as is - one TSC member per committer >> As this stands today, that would give us 56 TSC members, >> with almost half of them from one company >> >> 2 - we adopt the model as is - one TSC member per committer - >> to a maximum of 20% membership of the TSC >> This would ensure that no one company can 'own' the TSC - >> 56 committers, so max TSC membership from one company would be 11 >> >> 3 - Maximum one member of TSC per committing company, >> plus one TSC assignee per paid member >> This would keep the TSC to a manageable level, give companies >> an incentive to join, but not require membership to be on the TSC >> >> 4 - Something else? >> >> My current thoughts are with 3 because we should end up with a >> representative cross section of the stakeholders of the project, >> whilst still incentivising membership of the foundation. > > Thanks for sharing your view. > > I'm an Open Source guy and I might lack some politician skills. > So please excuse me if I take the freedom to talk really frankly :) > > First of all, this email thread was dedicated to the technical governance= . > And Matt is introducing money in this topic by talking about incentives. > I think it is a very interesting point that we must discuss. > From the beginning, everybody were saying that we must keep technical > governance and legal structure separate. > However one question has still no good answer: what is the incentive > for contributing money in the structure? > Is money going to biase the desired meritocratic system? > > My second comment is about having one company controlling the technical > governance. > I won't enter into the number details, and it's true that Intel provides > at least 50% of the contributions nowadays. Intel is also the biggest > contributor to Linux. No surprise. > I understand that a voice from ARM is requiring to mitigate this fact. > I would prefer ARM related companies working to achieve the same > level of commitment as Intel. They are increasing their contribution pace > but may never really compete with a giant like Intel. > That's why I second Matt to say that we must give a chance to every > vendors to influence the technical decisions. > Introducing a membership threshold looks to be a good idea. > > Having said that, I must state that the DPDK reality is a lot more > complex than a competition between vendors. > We are proving that a consensus based model works very well without > the need of a TSC or a board. > We can create such organization, but please keep in mind that it should > not be really helpful in the day-to-day job. +2 From contributions, meritocracy is applied. IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM5PR0801MB20517D17BFC3DDB2D9E1132A95AE0AM5PR0801MB2051_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"> <!-- converted from text --><style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; pad= ding-left: 4pt; border-left: #800000 2px solid; } --></style> </head> <body> <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D""> <!-- p {margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0} --> </style> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:#000000; = font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Thanks for the responses. I'm really looking forward to the debate= later today!</p> <p><br> </p> <p>One point I would raise, and it is one that Thomas picked up on a bit. &= nbsp;I don't think we can have a pure meritocracy /and/ expect some of the = membership to pay to support the project management. I am going to ha= ve a very hard time explaining to my exec why we should be spending $$$ on DPDK when there is no clear benefit to me= mbership.</p> <p><br> </p> <p>Comparisons have ben made to the OVS project, which is fine, but OVS doe= s not have any membership costs (as far as I can see) and LF host this proj= ect for free.</p> <p><br> </p> <p>I don't think we can have both of these positions hold true. We ei= ther have</p> <p> 1 - a pure meritocracy - ie the governance does not chan= ge and I believe we are in the same position as we are today</p> <p> 2 - Something a bit more like FD.io, with paid membership and paid= access to a board/TSC</p> <p><br> </p> <p>Regards</p> <p><br> </p> <p>Matt</p> </div> <hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%"> <div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" = color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Vincent Jardin <= vincent.jardin@6wind.com><br> <b>Sent:</b> 28 October 2016 23:54:13<br> <b>To:</b> Thomas Monjalon; moving@dpdk.org; Matt Spencer<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [dpdk-moving] description of technical governance</font= > <div> </div> </div> </div> <font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;"> <div class=3D"PlainText"><br> <br> Le 28 octobre 2016 9:22:43 PM Thomas Monjalon <thomas.monjalon@6wind.com= > a <br> =E9crit :<br> <br> > 2016-10-28 16:52, Matt Spencer:<br> >> 1 - we adopt the model as is - one TSC member per committer<br> >> As this stands today, that would give us 56 TSC members,<br> >> with almost half of them from one company<br> >><br> >> 2 - we adopt the model as is - one TSC member per committer -<br> >> to a maximum of 20% membership of the TSC<br> >> This would ensure that no one company can 'own' the TSC -<br> >> 56 committers, so max TSC membership from one company would be 11<= br> >><br> >> 3 - Maximum one member of TSC per committing company,<br> >> plus one TSC assignee per paid member<br> >> This would keep the TSC to a manageable level, give companies<br> >> an incentive to join, but not require membership to be on the TSC<= br> >><br> >> 4 - Something else?<br> >><br> >> My current thoughts are with 3 because we should end up with a<br> >> representative cross section of the stakeholders of the project,<b= r> >> whilst still incentivising membership of the foundation.<br> ><br> > Thanks for sharing your view.<br> ><br> > I'm an Open Source guy and I might lack some politician skills.<br> > So please excuse me if I take the freedom to talk really frankly :)<br= > ><br> > First of all, this email thread was dedicated to the technical governa= nce.<br> > And Matt is introducing money in this topic by talking about incentive= s.<br> > I think it is a very interesting point that we must discuss.<br> > From the beginning, everybody were saying that we must keep technical<= br> > governance and legal structure separate.<br> > However one question has still no good answer: what is the incentive<b= r> > for contributing money in the structure?<br> > Is money going to biase the desired meritocratic system?<br> ><br> > My second comment is about having one company controlling the technica= l<br> > governance.<br> > I won't enter into the number details, and it's true that Intel provid= es<br> > at least 50% of the contributions nowadays. Intel is also the biggest<= br> > contributor to Linux. No surprise.<br> > I understand that a voice from ARM is requiring to mitigate this fact.= <br> > I would prefer ARM related companies working to achieve the same<br> > level of commitment as Intel. They are increasing their contribution p= ace<br> > but may never really compete with a giant like Intel.<br> > That's why I second Matt to say that we must give a chance to every<br= > > vendors to influence the technical decisions.<br> > Introducing a membership threshold looks to be a good idea.<br> ><br> > Having said that, I must state that the DPDK reality is a lot more<br> > complex than a competition between vendors.<br> > We are proving that a consensus based model works very well without<br= > > the need of a TSC or a board.<br> > We can create such organization, but please keep in mind that it shoul= d<br> > not be really helpful in the day-to-day job.<br> <br> +2<br> <br> From contributions, meritocracy is applied.<br> <br> <br> </div> </span></font>IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachme= nts are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intende= d recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the c= ontents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank = you. </body> </html> --_000_AM5PR0801MB20517D17BFC3DDB2D9E1132A95AE0AM5PR0801MB2051_--