From: "Morten Brørup" <mb@smartsharesystems.com>
To: "Honnappa Nagarahalli" <Honnappa.Nagarahalli@arm.com>,
"Tyler Retzlaff" <roretzla@linux.microsoft.com>
Cc: "Stephen Hemminger" <stephen@networkplumber.org>, <dev@dpdk.org>,
"Ruifeng Wang" <Ruifeng.Wang@arm.com>, <thomas@monjalon.net>,
"nd" <nd@arm.com>, "nd" <nd@arm.com>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 0/7] replace rte atomics with GCC builtin atomics
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:07:50 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35D877E9@smartserver.smartshare.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <DBAPR08MB58143AC1DEAB1D52C6490A2F98869@DBAPR08MB5814.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
> From: Honnappa Nagarahalli [mailto:Honnappa.Nagarahalli@arm.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2023 17.40
>
> > From: Morten Brørup <mb@smartsharesystems.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 11:14 AM
> >
> > > From: Tyler Retzlaff [mailto:roretzla@linux.microsoft.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2023 16.30
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 03:58:07PM +0100, Morten Brørup wrote:
> > > > > From: Tyler Retzlaff [mailto:roretzla@linux.microsoft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15.22
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 12:28:44PM +0100, Morten Brørup wrote:
> > > > > > > From: Tyler Retzlaff [mailto:roretzla@linux.microsoft.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, 17 March 2023 22.49
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 02:42:26PM -0700, Stephen Hemminger
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 13:19:41 -0700 Tyler Retzlaff
> > > > > > > > <roretzla@linux.microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Replace the use of rte_atomic.h types and functions,
> > > > > > > > > instead use
> > > GCC
> > > > > > > > > supplied C++11 memory model builtins.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This series covers the libraries and drivers that are
> > > > > > > > > built on
> > > > > Windows.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The code has be converted to use the __atomic builtins
> but
> > > > > > > > > there
> > > are
> > > > > > > > > additional during conversion i notice that there may be
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > issues
> > > > > > > > > that need to be addressed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't think all these cmpset need to use SEQ_CST.
> > > > > > > > Especially for the places where it is used a loop, might
> be
> > > > > > > > more efficient with some of the other memory models.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i agree.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > however, i'm not trying to improve the code with this
> change,
> > > > > > > just decouple it from rte_atomics.h so trying my best to
> avoid
> > > > > > > any unnecessary semantic change.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > certainly if the maintainers of this code wish to weaken the
> > > > > > > ordering where appropriate after the change is merged they
> can
> > > > > > > do so and
> > > handily
> > > > > > > this change has enabled them to do so easily allowing them
> to
> > > > > > > test
> > > just
> > > > > > > their change in isolation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with the two-step approach, where this first step is a
> > > > > > simple
> > > > > search-and-replacement; but I insist that you add a FIXME or
> > > > > similar note where you have blindly used SEQ_CST, indicating
> that
> > > > > the memory order
> > > needs to
> > > > > be reviewed and potentially corrected.
> > > > >
> > > > > i think the maintainers need to take some responsibility, if
> they
> > > > > see optimizations they missed when previously writing the code
> > > > > they need to follow up with a patch themselves. i can't do
> > > > > everything for them and marking things i'm not sure about will
> > > > > only lead to me having to churn patch series to remove the
> unwanted
> > comments later.
> > > >
> > > > The previous atomic functions didn't have the "memory order"
> > > > parameter, so
> > > the maintainers didn't have to think about it - and thus they didn't
> > > miss any optimizations when accepting the code.
> > > >
> > > > I also agree 100 % that it is not your responsibility to consider
> or
> > > determine which memory order is appropriate!
> > > >
> > > > But I think you should mark the locations where you are changing
> > > > from the
> > > old rte_atomic functions (where no memory order optimization was
> > > available) to the new functions - to highlight where the option of
> > > memory ordering has been introduced and knowingly ignored (by you).
> > > >
> > >
> > > first, i have to apologize i confused myself about which of the many
> > > patch series i have up right now that you were commenting on.
> >
> > No worries... you are rushing through quite an effort for this, so a
> little
> > confusion is perfectly understandable. Especially when I'm replying to
> an ageing
> > email. :-)
> >
> > >
> > > let me ask for clarification in relation to this series.
> > >
> > > isn't that every single usage of the rte_atomic APIs?
> >
> > Probably, yes.
> >
> > > i mean are you
> > > literally asking for the entire patch series to look like the
> > > following patch snippet with the expectation that maintainers will
> > > come along and clean up/review after this series is merged?
> > >
> > > -rte_atomic_add32(&o, v);
> > > +//FIXME: opportunity for relaxing ordering constraint, please
> review
> > > +__atomic_fetch_add(&o, v, order);
> >
> > Exactly. And something similar for the rte_atomicXX_t variables
> changed to
> > intXX_t, such as the packet counters.
> >
> > Realistically, I don't expect the maintainers to clean them up anytime
> soon. The
> > purpose is to make the FIXMEs stick until someone eventually cleans
> them up, so
> > they are not forgotten as time passes.
> Cleaning up the rte_atomic APIs is a different effort. There is already
> lot of effort that has gone into this and there is more effort happening
> (rte_ring being a painful one)
>
> Instead of having FIXME, why not just send a separate patch with SEQ_CST
> (still a search and replace)? We can leave the tougher ones like
> rte_ring as they are being worked on.
The FIXME makes it possible in the future to differentiate between the instances that still need review and the instances that have been reviewed where SEQ_CST was the correct choice. (Similarly for the choice of type for variables previously rte_atomicNN_t.)
>
> >
> > >
> > > this would just be a mechanical addition to this series so i can
> > > certainly accomodate that, i thought something more complicated was
> > > being asked for. if this is all, then sure no problem.
> >
> > Great.
> >
> > >
> > > > > keep in mind i have to touch each of these again when converting
> > > > > to standard so that's a better time to review ~everything in
> more
> > > > > detail because when converting to standard that's when suddenly
> > > > > you get a bunch of code generation that is "fallback" to seq_cst
> that isn't
> > happening now.
> > > >
> > > > I think you should to do it when replacing the rte_atomic
> functions
> > > > with the
> > > __atomic functions. It will make it easier to see where the memory
> > > order was knowingly ignored, and should be reviewed for
> optimization.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > the series that converts to standard needs to be up for review
> as
> > > > > soon as possible to maximize available time for feedback before
> > > > > 23.11 so it would be better to get the simpler cut & paste
> > > > > normalizing the code out of the way to unblock that series
> submission.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, in a couple of the drivers, you are using int64_t for
> > > > > > packet
> > > counters.
> > > > > These cannot be negative and should be uint64_t. And AFAIK, such
> > > > > counters
> > > can
> > > > > use RELAXED memory order.
> > > > >
> > > > > i know you don't mean to say i selected the types and rather
> that
> > > > > the types that were selected are not quite correct for their
> usage.
> > > >
> > > > Yes; the previous types were also signed, and you didn't change
> that.
> > > >
> > > > > again
> > > > > on the review that actually adopts std atomics is a better place
> > > > > to make any potential type changes since we are "breaking" the
> API
> > > > > for 23.11 anyway. further, the std atomics series technically
> > > > > changes all the types so it's probably better to make one type
> > > > > change then rather than one now and one later.
> > > > >
> > > > > i think it would be best to get these validated and merged asap
> so
> > > > > we can get to the std atomics review. when that series is up
> let's
> > > > > discuss further how i can mark areas of concern, with that
> series
> > > > > i expect there will have to be some changes in order to avoid
> minor
> > regressions.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks!
> > > >
> > > > I thought it would be better to catch these details (i.e. memory
> > > > ordering
> > > and signedness) early on, but I now understand that you planned to
> do
> > > it in a later step. So I'll let you proceed as you have planned.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all your work on this, Tyler. It is much appreciated!
> > >
> > > again, sorry for the confusion the sooner i can get some of these
> > > merged the easier it will be for me to manage the final series. i
> hope
> > > david/thomas can merge the simple normalization patches as soon as
> > > 23.03 cycle is complete.
> >
> > Yes. An early merge would also provide more time for reviewing and
> optimizing
> > the memory order of the most important atomic operations.
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-22 17:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-03-17 20:19 Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 1/7] ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:36 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 2/7] stack: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 3/7] dma/idxd: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 4/7] net/ice: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:41 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 5/7] net/ixgbe: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 6/7] net/null: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:44 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 20:19 ` [PATCH 7/7] net/ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-17 21:42 ` [PATCH 0/7] " Stephen Hemminger
2023-03-17 21:49 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-22 11:28 ` Morten Brørup
2023-03-22 14:21 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-22 14:58 ` Morten Brørup
2023-03-22 15:29 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-22 16:13 ` Morten Brørup
2023-03-22 16:40 ` Honnappa Nagarahalli
2023-03-22 17:07 ` Morten Brørup [this message]
2023-03-22 17:38 ` Honnappa Nagarahalli
2023-03-22 18:06 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-02 3:37 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-02 4:31 ` Honnappa Nagarahalli
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 1/7] ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 2/7] stack: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 3/7] dma/idxd: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 4/7] net/ice: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 5/7] net/ixgbe: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 6/7] net/null: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:34 ` [PATCH v2 7/7] net/ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-24 7:07 ` [PATCH v2 0/7] " Morten Brørup
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 1/7] ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 2/7] stack: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:08 ` David Marchand
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 3/7] dma/idxd: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:09 ` David Marchand
2023-05-25 8:41 ` Bruce Richardson
2023-05-25 13:59 ` Morten Brørup
2023-05-25 12:57 ` Kevin Laatz
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 4/7] net/ice: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:10 ` David Marchand
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 5/7] net/ixgbe: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:11 ` David Marchand
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 6/7] net/null: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:13 ` David Marchand
2023-03-23 22:53 ` [PATCH v3 7/7] net/ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:12 ` David Marchand
2023-05-25 8:44 ` Bruce Richardson
2023-03-24 7:09 ` [PATCH v3 0/7] " Morten Brørup
2023-03-24 19:22 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 12:40 ` David Marchand
2023-05-24 15:47 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 20:06 ` David Marchand
2023-05-24 22:50 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-24 22:56 ` Honnappa Nagarahalli
2023-05-25 0:02 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-05-25 7:50 ` Morten Brørup
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 0/6] " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 1/6] stack: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 2/6] dma/idxd: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 3/6] net/ice: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 4/6] net/ixgbe: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 5/6] net/null: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-02 19:45 ` [PATCH v4 6/6] net/ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-05 8:27 ` Olivier Matz
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 0/6] " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 1/6] stack: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 2/6] dma/idxd: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 3/6] net/ice: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 4/6] net/ixgbe: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 5/6] net/null: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-06 21:45 ` [PATCH v5 6/6] net/ring: " Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-09 15:01 ` [PATCH v5 0/6] " David Marchand
2023-06-09 15:13 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-22 19:59 ` Patrick Robb
2023-06-23 8:53 ` David Marchand
2023-06-23 21:37 ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-06-28 14:01 ` Patrick Robb
2023-06-28 14:49 ` David Marchand
2023-06-23 21:35 ` Tyler Retzlaff
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