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From: "Morten Brørup" <mb@smartsharesystems.com>
To: "Mattias Rönnblom" <hofors@lysator.liu.se>,
	"Tyler Retzlaff" <roretzla@linux.microsoft.com>,
	"Stephen Hemminger" <stephen@networkplumber.org>,
	techboard@dpdk.org
Cc: <dev@dpdk.org>, "Bruce Richardson" <bruce.richardson@intel.com>,
	"Thomas Monjalon" <thomas@monjalon.net>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 0/4] RFC samples converting VLA to alloca
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 09:52:20 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35E9F383@smartserver.smartshare.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <28162ea3-7679-49a5-ac44-869718d32f53@lysator.liu.se>

> From: Mattias Rönnblom [mailto:hofors@lysator.liu.se]
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 09.32
> 
> On 2024-04-08 17:53, Morten Brørup wrote:
> >> From: Tyler Retzlaff [mailto:roretzla@linux.microsoft.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, 8 April 2024 17.27
> >>

[...]

> >> Looks like we need to discuss this at the next techboard meeting.
> >>
> >> * MSVC doesn't support C11 optional VLAs (and never will).
> >> * alloca() is an alternative that is available on all platforms/toolchain
> >>    combinations.
> >> * it's reasonable for some VLAs to be turned into regular arrays but it
> >>    would be unsatisfactory to be stuck waiting discussions of defining new
> >>    constant expression macros on a per-use basis.
> >
> > We must generally stop using VLAs, for many reasons.
> 
> What reasons would that be? And which of those reasons are not also
> reasons to stop using alloca().

The reasons against VLAs are the same as why MSVC doesn’t support them; primarily that they are insecure.

The reasons against VLAs and alloca() are the same, except MSVC supports alloca().

> 
> > The only available 1:1 replacement is alloca(), so we have to accept that.
> >
> > If anyone still cares about improvements, we can turn alloca()'d arrays into
> regular arrays after this patch series.
> >
> > Alternatives to VLAs are very interesting discussions, but let's not stall
> MSVC progress because of it!
> >
> 
> What is this supposed to mean? Finding alternatives to VLAs are required
> to make progress of MSVC support in DPDK.

It means that not enough people contribute to discussing and implementing alternatives, so we have to use the 1:1 replacement alternative, alloca(), to avoid stalling DPDK support for MSVC.

We can discuss and implement alternatives at any time, if anybody cares.

> 
> >> * there is resistance to using alloca() vs VLA so my proposal is to
> >>    change only the code that is built to target windows.
> >
> > I would prefer to get rid of them all, so the CI can build with -Wvla to
> prevent them from being introduced again.
> > Not a strong preference.
> > On the other hand, the CI's MSVC builds will catch them if used for a
> Windows target.
> > And limiting to Windows code reduces the amount of work, so that's probably
> the most realistic solution.
> >

  reply	other threads:[~2024-04-10  7:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-11-07 19:32 RFC acceptable handling of VLAs across toolchains Tyler Retzlaff
2023-11-08  2:31 ` Stephen Hemminger
2023-11-08  3:25   ` Tyler Retzlaff
2023-11-08  8:19     ` Morten Brørup
2023-11-08 16:51 ` Stephen Hemminger
2023-11-08 17:48   ` Morten Brørup
2023-11-09 10:25     ` RFC: default burst sizes in rte_config Morten Brørup
2023-11-09 20:26   ` RFC acceptable handling of VLAs across toolchains Tyler Retzlaff
2024-03-21  0:12     ` Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-04 17:15 ` [PATCH 0/4] RFC samples converting VLA to alloca Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-04 17:15   ` [PATCH 1/4] latencystats: use alloca instead of vla trivial Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-06 15:28     ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-07  9:36       ` Mattias Rönnblom
2024-04-07 17:00         ` Stephen Hemminger
2024-04-04 17:15   ` [PATCH 2/4] hash: " Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-06 16:01     ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-04 17:15   ` [PATCH 3/4] vhost: use alloca instead of vla sizeof Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-06 22:30     ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-04 17:15   ` [PATCH 4/4] dispatcher: use alloca instead of vla multi dimensional Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-06 15:49     ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-07  9:31   ` [PATCH 0/4] RFC samples converting VLA to alloca Mattias Rönnblom
2024-04-07 11:07     ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-07 17:03       ` Stephen Hemminger
2024-04-08 15:27         ` Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-08 15:53           ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-09  8:28             ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-09 15:08               ` Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-10  9:58                 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-10 17:03                   ` Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-10  7:32             ` Mattias Rönnblom
2024-04-10  7:52               ` Morten Brørup [this message]
2024-04-10 17:04               ` Tyler Retzlaff
2024-04-10  7:27           ` Mattias Rönnblom
2024-04-10 17:10             ` Tyler Retzlaff

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