From: "Morten Brørup" <mb@smartsharesystems.com>
To: "Ferruh Yigit" <ferruh.yigit@amd.com>,
"Konstantin Ananyev" <konstantin.ananyev@huawei.com>,
"David Marchand" <david.marchand@redhat.com>, <dev@dpdk.org>
Cc: <thomas@monjalon.net>, <stable@dpdk.org>,
"Olivier Matz" <olivier.matz@6wind.com>,
"Jijiang Liu" <jijiang.liu@intel.com>,
"Andrew Rybchenko" <andrew.rybchenko@oktetlabs.ru>,
"Kaiwen Deng" <kaiwenx.deng@intel.com>, <qiming.yang@intel.com>,
<yidingx.zhou@intel.com>,
"Aman Singh" <aman.deep.singh@intel.com>,
"Yuying Zhang" <yuying.zhang@intel.com>,
"Jerin Jacob" <jerinj@marvell.com>
Subject: RE: [PATCH v2 3/8] mbuf: fix Tx checksum offload examples
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:14:17 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35E9F3A4@smartserver.smartshare.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <66d378ca-eb94-4165-9b18-c5fc9b10ea16@amd.com>
> From: Ferruh Yigit [mailto:ferruh.yigit@amd.com]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2024 17.08
>
> On 4/12/2024 3:44 PM, Morten Brørup wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Mandate use of rte_eth_tx_prepare() in the mbuf Tx checksum
> >> offload
> >>>>>>>> examples.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I strongly disagree with this change!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It will cause a huge performance degradation for shaping
> >> applications:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A packet will be processed and finalized at an output or
> >> forwarding
> >>>>>> pipeline stage, where some other fields might also be written,
> >> so
> >>>>>>> zeroing e.g. the out_ip checksum at this stage has low cost
> >> (no new
> >>>>>> cache misses).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Then, the packet might be queued for QoS or similar.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If rte_eth_tx_prepare() must be called at the egress pipeline
> >> stage,
> >>>>>> it has to write to the packet and cause a cache miss per packet,
> >>>>>>> instead of simply passing on the packet to the NIC hardware.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It must be possible to finalize the packet at the
> >> output/forwarding
> >>>>>> pipeline stage!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you can finalize your packet on output/forwarding, then why
> >> you
> >>>>>> can't invoke tx_prepare() on the same stage?
> >>>>>> There seems to be some misunderstanding about what tx_prepare()
> >> does -
> >>>>>> in fact it doesn't communicate with HW queue (doesn't update TXD
> >> ring,
> >>>>>> etc.), what it does - just make changes in mbuf itself.
> >>>>>> Yes, it reads some fields in SW TX queue struct (max number of
> >> TXDs per
> >>>>>> packet, etc.), but AFAIK it is safe
> >>>>>> to call tx_prepare() and tx_burst() from different threads.
> >>>>>> At least on implementations I am aware about.
> >>>>>> Just checked the docs - it seems not stated explicitly anywhere,
> >> might
> >>>>>> be that's why it causing such misunderstanding.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Also, how is rte_eth_tx_prepare() supposed to work for cloned
> >> packets
> >>>>>> egressing on different NIC hardware?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you create a clone of full packet (including L2/L3) headers
> >> then
> >>>>>> obviously such construction might not
> >>>>>> work properly with tx_prepare() over two different NICs.
> >>>>>> Though In majority of cases you do clone segments with data,
> >> while at
> >>>>>> least L2 headers are put into different segments.
> >>>>>> One simple approach would be to keep L3 header in that separate
> >> segment.
> >>>>>> But yes, there is a problem when you'll need to send exactly the
> >> same
> >>>>>> packet over different NICs.
> >>>>>> As I remember, for bonding PMD things don't work quite well here
> >> - you
> >>>>>> might have a bond over 2 NICs with
> >>>>>> different tx_prepare() and which one to call might be not clear
> >> till
> >>>>>> actual PMD tx_burst() is invoked.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In theory, it might get even worse if we make this opaque
> >> instead of
> >>>>>> transparent and standardized:
> >>>>>>> One PMD might reset out_ip checksum to 0x0000, and another PMD
> >> might
> >>>>>> reset it to 0xFFFF.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can only see one solution:
> >>>>>>> We need to standardize on common minimum requirements for how
> >> to
> >>>>>> prepare packets for each TX offload.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If we can make each and every vendor to agree here - that
> >> definitely
> >>>>>> will help to simplify things quite a bit.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> An API is more than a function name and parameters.
> >>>>> It also has preconditions and postconditions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All major NIC vendors are contributing to DPDK.
> >>>>> It should be possible to reach consensus for reasonable minimum
> >> requirements
> >>>> for offloads.
> >>>>> Hardware- and driver-specific exceptions can be documented with
> >> the offload
> >>>> flag, or with rte_eth_rx/tx_burst(), like the note to
> >>>>> rte_eth_rx_burst():
> >>>>> "Some drivers using vector instructions require that nb_pkts is
> >> divisible by
> >>>> 4 or 8, depending on the driver implementation."
> >>>>
> >>>> If we introduce a rule that everyone supposed to follow and then
> >> straightway
> >>>> allow people to have a 'documented exceptions',
> >>>> for me it means like 'no rule' in practice.
> >>>> A 'documented exceptions' approach might work if you have 5
> >> different PMDs to
> >>>> support, but not when you have 50+.
> >>>> No-one would write an app with possible 10 different exception
> cases
> >> in his
> >>>> head.
> >>>> Again, with such approach we can forget about backward
> >> compatibility.
> >>>> I think we already had this discussion before, my opinion remains
> >> the same
> >>>> here -
> >>>> 'documented exceptions' approach is a way to trouble.
> >>>
> >>> The "minimum requirements" should be the lowest common denominator
> of
> >> all NICs.
> >>> Exceptions should be extremely few, for outlier NICs that still want
> >> to provide an offload and its driver is unable to live up to the
> >>> minimum requirements.
> >>> Any exception should require techboard approval. If a NIC/driver
> does
> >> not support the "minimum requirements" for an offload
> >>> feature, it is not allowed to claim support for that offload
> feature,
> >> or needs to seek approval for an exception.
> >>>
> >>> As another option for NICs not supporting the minimum requirements
> of
> >> an offload feature, we could introduce offload flags with
> >>> finer granularity. E.g. one offload flag for "gold standard" TX
> >> checksum update (where the packet's checksum field can have any
> >>> value), and another offload flag for "silver standard" TX checksum
> >> update (where the packet's checksum field must have a
> >>> precomputed value).
> >>
> >> Actually yes, I was thinking in the same direction - we need some
> extra
> >> API to allow user to distinguish.
> >> Probably we can do something like that: a new API for the ethdev call
> >> that would take as a parameter
> >> TX offloads bitmap and in return specify would it need to modify
> >> contents of packet to support these
> >> offloads or not.
> >> Something like:
> >> int rte_ethdev_tx_offload_pkt_mod_required(unt64_t tx_offloads)
> >>
> >> For the majority of the drivers that satisfy these "minimum
> >> requirements" corresponding devops
> >> entry will be empty and we'll always return 0, otherwise PMD has to
> >> provide a proper devop.
> >> Then again, it would be up to the user, to determine can he pass same
> >> packet to 2 different NICs or not.
> >>
> >> I suppose it is similar to what you were talking about?
> >
> > I was thinking something more simple:
> >
> > The NIC exposes its RX and TX offload capabilities to the application
> through the rx/tx_offload_capa and other fields in the rte_eth_dev_info
> structure returned by rte_eth_dev_info_get().
> >
> > E.g. tx_offload_capa might have the RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM flag
> set.
> > These capability flags (or enums) are mostly undocumented in the code,
> but I guess that the RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM capability means that
> the NIC is able to update the IPv4 header checksum at egress (on the
> wire, i.e. without modifying the mbuf or packet data), and that the
> application must set RTE_MBUF_F_TX_IP_CKSUM in the mbufs to utilize this
> offload.
> > I would define and document what each capability flag/enum exactly
> means, the minimum requirements (as defined by the DPDK community) for
> the driver to claim support for it, and the requirements for an
> application to use it.
> >
>
> +1 to improve documentation, and clear offload where it is needed.
>
> Another gap is in testing, whenever a device/driver claims an offload
> capability, we don't have a test suit to confirm and verify this claim.
Yep, conformance testing is lacking big time in our CI.
Adding the ts-factory tests to the CI was a big step in this direction.
But for now, we are mostly relying on vendor's internal testing.
>
>
> > For the sake of discussion, let's say that
> RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM means "gold standard" TX checksum update
> capability (i.e. no requirements to the checksum field in the packet
> contents).
> > If some NIC requires the checksum field in the packet contents to have
> a precomputed value, the NIC would not be allowed to claim the
> RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM capability.
> > Such a NIC would need to define and document a new capability, e.g.
> RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM_ASSISTED, for the "silver standard" TX
> checksum update capability.
> >
> > In other words: I would encode variations of offload capabilities
> directly in the capabilities flags.
> > Then we don't need additional APIs to help interpret those
> capabilities.
> >
> > This way, the application can probe the NIC capabilities to determine
> what can be offloaded, and how to do it.
> >
> > The application can be designed to:
> > 1. use a common packet processing pipeline, utilizing only the lowest
> common capabilities denominator of all detected NICs, or
> > 2. use a packet processing pipeline, handling packets differently
> according to the capabilities of the involved NICs.
> >
>
> Offload capabilities are already provided to enable applications as you
> mentioned above.
>
> Agree that '_ASSISTED' capability flags gives more details to
> application to manage it but my concern is it complicates offloading
> more.
>
> The number of "assisted" offloads is not much, mainly it is for cksum.
> Current approach is simpler, devices requires precondition implements it
> in 'tx_prepare' and application using these offloads calls before
> 'tx_burst'. Device/drivers doesn't require it don't have 'tx_prepare' so
> no impact to the application.
>
> Will it work to have something in between, another capability to hold if
> 'tx_prepare' needs to be called with this device or not?
> It can be possible to make this variable 32bits that holds offloads
> require assistance in a bit-wise way, but I prefer simple if
> 'tx_prepare' required flag, this may help application to decide to use
> offloads in that device and to call 'tx_prepare' or not.
Consider an IP Multicast packet to be transmitted on many ports.
With my suggestion, the packet can be prepared once - i.e. the output/forwarding stage sets the IP header checksum as required by the (lowest common denominator) offload capabilities flag - before being cloned for tx() on each port.
With tx_prepare(), the packet needs to be copied (deep copy!) for each port, and then tx_prepare() needs to be called for each port before tx().
The opaque tx_prepare() concept violates the concept of not modifying the packet at egress.
DPDK follows a principle of not using opaque types, so application developers can optimize accordingly. The opaque behavior of tx_prepare() violates this principle, and I consider it a horrible hack!
>
> > NB: There may be other variations than requiring packet contents to be
> modified, and they might be granular.
> > E.g. a NIC might require assistance for TCP/UDP checksum offload, but
> not for IP checksum offload, so a function telling if packet contents
> requires modification would not suffice.
> > E.g. RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_MULTI_SEGS is defined, but the
> rte_eth_dev_info structure doesn't expose information about the max
> number of segments it can handle.
> >
>
> Another good point to report max number of segment can be handled, +1
>
>
> > PS: For backwards compatibility, we might define
> RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM as the "silver standard" offload to
> support the current "minimum requirements", and add
> RTE_ETH_TX_OFFLOAD_IPV4_CKSUM_ANY for the "gold standard" offload.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>> For reference, consider RSS, where the feature support flags have
> very
> >> high granularity.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> You mention the bonding driver, which is a good example.
> >>>>> The rte_eth_tx_burst() documentation has a note about the API
> >> postcondition
> >>>> exception for the bonding driver:
> >>>>> "This function must not modify mbufs (including packets data)
> >> unless the
> >>>> refcnt is 1. An exception is the bonding PMD, [...], mbufs
> >>>>> may be modified."
> >>>>
> >>>> For me, what we've done for bonding tx_prepare/tx_burst() is a
> >> really bad
> >>>> example.
> >>>> Initial agreement and design choice was that tx_burst() should not
> >> modify
> >>>> contents of the packets
> >>>> (that actually was one of the reasons why tx_prepare() was
> >> introduced).
> >>>> The only reason I agreed on that exception - because I couldn't
> >> come-up with
> >>>> something less uglier.
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, these problems with bonding PMD made me to start thinking
> >> that
> >>>> current
> >>>> tx_prepare/tx_burst approach might need to be reconsidered somehow.
> >>>
> >>> In cases where a preceding call to tx_prepare() is required, how is
> it
> >> worse modifying the packet in tx_burst() than modifying the
> >>> packet in tx_prepare()?
> >>>
> >>> Both cases violate the postcondition that packets are not modified
> at
> >> egress.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Then we can probably have one common tx_prepare() for all
> >> vendors ;)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, that would be the goal.
> >>>>> More realistically, the ethdev layer could perform the common
> >> checks, and
> >>>> only the non-conforming drivers would have to implement
> >>>>> their specific tweaks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmm, but that's what we have right now:
> >>>> - fields in mbuf and packet data that user has to fill correctly
> and
> >> dev
> >>>> specific tx_prepare().
> >>>> How what you suggest will differ then?
> >>>
> >>> You're 100 % right here. We could move more checks into the ethdev
> >> layer, specifically checks related to the "minimum
> >>> requirements".
> >>>
> >>>> And how it will help let say with bonding PMD situation, or with
> TX-
> >> ing of the
> >>>> same packet over 2 different NICs?
> >>>
> >>> The bonding driver is broken.
> >>> It can only be fixed by not violating the egress postcondition in
> >> either tx_burst() or tx_prepare().
> >>> "Minimum requirements" might help doing that.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> If we don't standardize the meaning of the offload flags, the
> >> application
> >>>> developers cannot trust them!
> >>>>> I'm afraid this is the current situation - application developers
> >> either
> >>>> test with specific NIC hardware, or don't use the offload features.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, I have used TX offloads through several projects, it worked
> >> quite well.
> >>>
> >>> That is good to hear.
> >>> And I don't oppose to that.
> >>>
> >>> In this discussion, I am worried about the roadmap direction for
> DPDK.
> >>> I oppose to the concept of requiring calling tx_prepare() before
> >> calling tx_burst() when using offload. I think it is conceptually
> wrong,
> >>> and breaks the egress postcondition.
> >>> I propose "minimum requirements" as a better solution.
> >>>
> >>>> Though have to admit, never have to use TX offloads together with
> >> our bonding
> >>>> PMD.
> >>>>
> >
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-04-16 7:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20240405125039.897933-1-david.marchand@redhat.com>
2024-04-05 12:49 ` [PATCH " David Marchand
2024-04-05 12:49 ` [PATCH 4/8] app/testpmd: fix outer IP checksum offload David Marchand
2024-04-05 12:49 ` [PATCH 5/8] net: fix outer UDP checksum in Intel prepare helper David Marchand
2024-04-05 12:49 ` [PATCH 6/8] net/i40e: fix outer UDP checksum offload for X710 David Marchand
2024-04-05 12:49 ` [PATCH 7/8] net/iavf: remove outer UDP checksum offload for X710 VF David Marchand
[not found] ` <20240405144604.906695-1-david.marchand@redhat.com>
2024-04-05 14:45 ` [PATCH v2 3/8] mbuf: fix Tx checksum offload examples David Marchand
2024-04-05 16:20 ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-08 10:12 ` David Marchand
2024-04-09 13:38 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-09 14:44 ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-10 10:35 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-10 12:20 ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-12 12:46 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-12 14:44 ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-12 15:17 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-12 15:54 ` Morten Brørup
2024-04-16 9:16 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-16 11:36 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-15 15:07 ` Ferruh Yigit
2024-04-16 7:14 ` Morten Brørup [this message]
2024-04-16 9:26 ` Konstantin Ananyev
2024-04-05 14:45 ` [PATCH v2 4/8] app/testpmd: fix outer IP checksum offload David Marchand
2024-04-05 14:45 ` [PATCH v2 5/8] net: fix outer UDP checksum in Intel prepare helper David Marchand
2024-04-05 14:46 ` [PATCH v2 6/8] net/i40e: fix outer UDP checksum offload for X710 David Marchand
2024-04-05 14:46 ` [PATCH v2 7/8] net/iavf: remove outer UDP checksum offload for X710 VF David Marchand
[not found] ` <20240418082023.1767998-1-david.marchand@redhat.com>
2024-04-18 8:20 ` [PATCH v3 3/7] app/testpmd: fix outer IP checksum offload David Marchand
2024-04-18 8:20 ` [PATCH v3 4/7] net: fix outer UDP checksum in Intel prepare helper David Marchand
2024-04-18 8:20 ` [PATCH v3 5/7] net/i40e: fix outer UDP checksum offload for X710 David Marchand
2024-04-18 8:20 ` [PATCH v3 6/7] net/iavf: remove outer UDP checksum offload for X710 VF David Marchand
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=98CBD80474FA8B44BF855DF32C47DC35E9F3A4@smartserver.smartshare.dk \
--to=mb@smartsharesystems.com \
--cc=aman.deep.singh@intel.com \
--cc=andrew.rybchenko@oktetlabs.ru \
--cc=david.marchand@redhat.com \
--cc=dev@dpdk.org \
--cc=ferruh.yigit@amd.com \
--cc=jerinj@marvell.com \
--cc=jijiang.liu@intel.com \
--cc=kaiwenx.deng@intel.com \
--cc=konstantin.ananyev@huawei.com \
--cc=olivier.matz@6wind.com \
--cc=qiming.yang@intel.com \
--cc=stable@dpdk.org \
--cc=thomas@monjalon.net \
--cc=yidingx.zhou@intel.com \
--cc=yuying.zhang@intel.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).