Re: [dpdk-dev] GitHub sandbox for the DPDK community

[Panu Matilainen <pmatilai@redhat.com>]

On 05/05/2015 07:43 PM, Wiles, Keith wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 5, 2015, at 6:56 AM, Neil Horman <nhorman@tuxdriver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 10:25:00PM -0500, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 4, 2015, at 10:12 PM, Wiles, Keith <keith.wiles@intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/4/15, 10:48 AM, "Matthew Hall" <mhall@mhcomputing.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 12:43:48PM +0000, Qiu, Michael wrote:
>>>>>> What mail client do you use? I think  mail client supporting thread mode
>>>>>> is important for patch review.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like many UNIX people, I use mutt.
>>>>>
>>>>> My concern is that, if we're making the widespread adoption, usage, and
>>>>> contributions for DPDK dependent on selection or debate of the features
>>>>> of
>>>>> various MUAs, I'm not sure that we're looking at this from the right
>>>>> angle.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just trying to figure out how to get DPDK in the place where the most
>>>>> eyeballs are, rather than trying to drag the eyeballs to the place where
>>>>> DPDK
>>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> +1, I agree with this statement completely and I feel discussions about an
>>>> MUA is non-productive and out of scope.
>>>
>>> +1.  I’ve avoided the whole discussion, because … ok, “non-productive and out of scope” is a polite way of saying it.
>>>
>>> jim
>>
>> Very well, since you seem to want to avoid talking about ways to get what you
>> want in a workflow, lets go back to where the conversation started:
>>
>> http://dpdk.org/ml/archives/dev/2015-May/017225.html
>>
>> We got into this debate because you wanted to move the project to github, and as
>> supporting reasons, listed a plethora of features that you liked about the site.
>> This entire subtread has been meant to illustrate how you can have the features
>> you want that you see as adventageous in the github environment without actualy
>> moving to github.  We've focused on email quote collapsing because we kept
>> responding to one another, though I'm sure we could have the same debate on any
>> one of the workflow features github offers.
>>
>> Can we all agree then, that for the list posted in your email above, any github
>> environmental feature can be recreated with proper tooling, available today,
>> without forcing the github environment on everybody?  Further, can we agree
>> that, given that those features are not unique to github, they are not
>> compelling reasons to move the project there?
>
> Neil (I had to type this on my phone so please forgive any typos or
> other statements that may sound odd. I am not trying to be rude in anyway)

Somewhat OT but if you feel a disclaimer like this is required, would it 
not be better to let the response wait a few hours (or even a day or 
two) until you get back to a real computer? Especially since the matter 
is not actually urgent but just an ongoing discussion on a mailing list 
that is likely to continue for days or weeks to come.

>
> I feel you are taking everything out of context here. The email
> client being able collapse threads is not the point here and I have
> tried to redirect you politely to the points moving DPDK to github.

Well perhaps there's also a point between the lines: many people (myself 
included) prefer email with the MUA of their choice as *the* tool for 
these tasks over some web interface that changes every now and then at 
somebody elses whim. But certainly many != all.

> As I and others have pointed out GitHub offers a huge number eyes
> for DPDK community.

I dont know - how does moving a tree into a forest make it more visible? 
Well, to some of the other trees in the forest yes. Maybe there's a 
social networking aspect to this which I dont understand, I'm just a 
grumpy old-schooler. But if I need to find something, be it software or 
something else, I go to Google not GitHub (or SourceForge before that).

> GitHub offers a different set of processes and
> tools, which we do not have to create. Moving to GitHub is a change
> for the community and I feel a good change for the better.

Like quite a few others in this thread, I dont care if the git repo 
moved to the end of internet as long as email continues to be a 
first-class means for patch submissions, reviews and other 
communication. It doesn't have to be the only way as clearly many people 
prefer otherwise.

[...]
>
> I do not want to split the DPDK community or try alienating any one.

Forcing a change of tools and workflows on everybody WILL create 
ill-will if nothing else.

Also please realize that not everybody sees GitHub as the greatest thing 
since sliced bread. It has quite some "Hotel California" aspects to it, 
and actually the imago of an average GH project is not that great: there 
are so many badly run and abandoned projects there that the first 
thought when I hear the word GitHub is "oh no, not one of those again" 
rather than "cool". I know I'm not alone in that thinking.

	- Panu -