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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN0PR11MB5712.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b43dd098-36f0-496a-dafb-08d9dbfe971c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jan 2022 10:21:15.1643 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 46c98d88-e344-4ed4-8496-4ed7712e255d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ZizZJNS6bLajllxo+GhbSKgBHwTifCOeLommBbWqzwbCN06Fn5aPkh9UUxYOCCMylP3Z+kmjnoeRUAl7gtCxST1mNJGv6PeNdAl6k+OEsh4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR1101MB2258 X-OriginatorOrg: intel.com X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions <dev.dpdk.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://mails.dpdk.org/options/dev>, <mailto:dev-request@dpdk.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mails.dpdk.org/archives/dev/> List-Post: <mailto:dev@dpdk.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-request@dpdk.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://mails.dpdk.org/listinfo/dev>, <mailto:dev-request@dpdk.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: dev-bounces@dpdk.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Monjalon <thomas@monjalon.net> > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 2:56 PM > To: Randles, Ronan <ronan.randles@intel.com>; Van Haaren, Harry > <harry.van.haaren@intel.com> > Cc: dev@dpdk.org; Jerin Jacob <jerinjacobk@gmail.com>; dev@dpdk.org; > Richardson, Bruce <bruce.richardson@intel.com> > Subject: Re: [PATCH 05/12] gen: add raw packet data API and tests >=20 > 20/12/2021 11:21, Van Haaren, Harry: > > From: Thomas Monjalon <thomas@monjalon.net> > > > 17/12/2021 12:40, Van Haaren, Harry: > > > > I could ramble on a bit more, but mostly diminishing returns I thin= k... > > > > I'll just use this email as a reply to Thomas' tweet; > > > > https://twitter.com/tmonjalo/status/1337313985662771201 > > > > > > My original question was to know available applications, > > > not integrating such application in the DPDK repository. > > > > > > I may me miss something obvious, > > > but I don't understand why trying to add a user app inside DPDK repo. > > > > There are likely a few points-of-view on this particular topic; and I'm= glad > > you mention it so we can discuss it clearly here. > > > > There are two main parts to this patchset, the first is a packet genera= tion > library, > > with an easy to use string-based syntax. The *library* is designed to b= e > extended in > > future to a range of "useful stuff" to do while generating packets. >=20 > The text syntax would be specific to this application > and not usable somewhere else, so it doesn't make sense as a lib. The text string format "Ether()/IP(src=3D1.2.3.4)/UDP()" is not application= specific, and the items being parsed can be easily added to; that's what I meant abov= e. > > The packet generation > > *application* should have minimal features, and focus on ease-of-use (a= s > suggested below). >=20 > It would be either a limited application, > or an ever-growing application. > If the latter, it should not be in the main DPDK repository in my opinion= . >=20 > By the way, I don't think it is the responsibility of DPDK to generate pa= ckets. > I would prefer having an application using the already known scapy > or a graphical interface like Ostinato. > There are tons of approach to define packets to send (pCraft is another o= ne). > DPDK should only manage the Tx part, and optionally Rx of forwarded packe= ts. Scapy did not meet the performance requirements for infrastructure testing = use-cases. The goal of gen lib is to provide a toolbox for high-speed "scapy-like" pac= ket generation, the above tools didn't seem like the right fit for my needs; hence Gen libr= ary. > > In order to test the DPDK code, we need a variety of unit tests, and a = sample- > application to show > > users how to use the library (as well as docs etc). For me, the interes= ting part is > that it is a small > > step from a simple sample-app just for testing to a minimal tool for hi= gh-rate > packet generation. > > > > I think many users of DPDK first install DPDK, then wish for a tool to = generate > high traffic rates > > to test DPDK, and end up with a usability problem; DPDK does not includ= e a > usable packet generator. >=20 > I don't see any usability problem in using an external well known tool. > Learning a new tool provided by DPDK *is* a usabilty difficulty. >=20 > > To highlight this point; our own DPDK Docs simply ignore the requiremen= t of > packet-generation to > > actually have packets processed by skeleton: > http://doc.dpdk.org/guides/sample_app_ug/skeleton.html > > Our "quick start" on the website uses PCAP vdevs (avoiding the problem) > https://core.dpdk.org/doc/quick-start/ > > Even searching the entire docs for "generate packet" doesn't give any > relevant/useful results: > > > http://doc.dpdk.org/guides/search.html?q=3Dgenerate+packet&check_keywords= =3D > yes&area=3Ddefault# > > > > Users could internet-search & find pktgen, moongen, trex, or similar to= ols. > These tools are fantastic for experienced > > developers such as devs on this mailing list - we should *NOT* replicat= e these > complex tools in DPDK itself. However, > > building any tool outside of DPDK repo requires more effort; another gi= t-clone, > another set of dependencies to install, > > perhaps another build-system to get used to. Particularly for people st= arting > out with DPDK (who are likely finding > > it difficult to learn the various hugepage/PCI-binding etc), this is ye= t another > problem to solve, or to give up. > > > > So my proposal is as follows; let us add a simple DPDK traffic generato= r to DPDK. > We can define its scope > > and its intended use, limiting the scope and capabilities. As before, I= do NOT > think it a good idea to build a > > complex and feature-rich packet generator. I do feel it useful to have = an easy- > to-use application in DPDK that > > is particularly designed for generating specific packets, at specific l= ine-rates, and > reports mpps returned. > > > > Thoughts on adding an small scope-limited application to DPDK enabling = ease- > of-packet-generation for new users? >=20 > So you want a simple packet generator for simple benchmarks? > And for complex benchmarks, we use another tool? In short, yes. Make simple things easy (gen lib in DPDK itself), and make d= ifficult things possible (by using TRex, Ostinato, Warp17, MoonGen, Pktgen, pCraft, Scapy, = or other tools). But to summarize, it seems there are multiple questions/concerns around mer= ging the gen library into DPDK. That's OK, this is not a critical feature to upstrea= m, I thought it might be useful to the wider community. As some rework was done from the V1 to a V2, adding some protocols and gene= rally advancing the library, Ronan and I will post the V2 to list to make it publ= icly available. We can mark the V2 as "not applicable" in patchwork once sent. I will likely continue to use the Gen library for my own packet-generation = & testing needs. If in future somebody is interested in Gen library send me an email! Regards, -Harry