From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from relay0181.mxlogin.com (relay0181.mxlogin.com [199.181.239.181]) by dpdk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148F82C54 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from filter002.mxroute.com (unknown [116.203.155.46]) by relay0181.mxlogin.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E01CC6031C; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:23:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [23.92.70.113]) by filter002.mxroute.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 703DE3F0D0; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.55.54.44] by localhost with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwLX-00009N-Q4; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:24:32 -0400 To: Jerin Jacob Kollanukkaran , Stephen Hemminger Cc: Bruce Richardson , Honnappa Nagarahalli , "dev@dpdk.org" , "Ananyev, Konstantin" , "thomas@monjalon.net" , nd References: <20190417083637.GB1890@bricha3-MOBL.ger.corp.intel.com> <20190417115110.5cb70832@hermes.lan> From: Ray Kinsella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mdr@ashroe.eu; 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WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: mdr@ashroe.eu Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [EXT] Re: ABI and inline functions X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:23:50 -0000 On 18/04/2019 06:56, Jerin Jacob Kollanukkaran wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stephen Hemminger >> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:21 AM >> To: Jerin Jacob Kollanukkaran >> Cc: Bruce Richardson ; Honnappa Nagarahalli >> ; dev@dpdk.org; Ananyev, Konstantin >> ; thomas@monjalon.net; Ray Kinsella >> ; nd >> Subject: [EXT] Re: [dpdk-dev] ABI and inline functions >>> I would value ABI compatibility much higher than API compatibility. >>>> If someone is recompiling the application anyway, making a couple of >>>> small changes (large rework is obviously a different issue) to the >>>> code should not be a massive issue, I hope. On the other hand, ABI >>>> compatibility is needed to allow seamless update from one version to >>>> another, and it's that ABI compatiblity that allows distro's to pick up our >> latest and greatest versions. >>> >>> IMO, We have two primary use case for DPDK >>> >>> 1) NFV kind of use case where the application needs to run on multiple >> platform >>> without recompiling it. >>> 2) Fixed appliance use case where embed SoC like Intel Denverton or >>> ARM64 integrated Controller used. For fixed appliance use case, end >>> user care more of performance than ABI compatibility as it easy to >>> recompile the end user application vs the cost of hitting performance impact. >> >> Nobody cares about compatiablity until they have to the first security update. > > For fixed appliance case, The update(FW update) will be a single blob which > Include all the components. So they can back port the security fix and recompile > the sw as needed. > > The very similar category is DPDK running in smart NICs(Runs as FW in PCIe EP device). So is there a real versus a perceived compromise happen here - that we are compromising optimal performance in order to make API stability happen? Do we have specific an examples that this is actually the case? Thanks, Ray K From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from dpdk.org (dpdk.org [92.243.14.124]) by dpdk.space (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFB2A05D3 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [92.243.14.124] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dpdk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6E969D4; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:23:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay0181.mxlogin.com (relay0181.mxlogin.com [199.181.239.181]) by dpdk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148F82C54 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from filter002.mxroute.com (unknown [116.203.155.46]) by relay0181.mxlogin.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E01CC6031C; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:23:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [23.92.70.113]) by filter002.mxroute.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 703DE3F0D0; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.55.54.44] by localhost with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwLX-00009N-Q4; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:24:32 -0400 To: Jerin Jacob Kollanukkaran , Stephen Hemminger Cc: Bruce Richardson , Honnappa Nagarahalli , "dev@dpdk.org" , "Ananyev, Konstantin" , "thomas@monjalon.net" , nd References: <20190417083637.GB1890@bricha3-MOBL.ger.corp.intel.com> <20190417115110.5cb70832@hermes.lan> From: Ray Kinsella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mdr@ashroe.eu; 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WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: mdr@ashroe.eu Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [EXT] Re: ABI and inline functions X-BeenThere: dev@dpdk.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DPDK patches and discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dev-bounces@dpdk.org Sender: "dev" Message-ID: <20190423142342.i22oU1wUuF0KEOmd8LtD8O9cX4So2P2-hlPTOl00Wrk@z> On 18/04/2019 06:56, Jerin Jacob Kollanukkaran wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stephen Hemminger >> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:21 AM >> To: Jerin Jacob Kollanukkaran >> Cc: Bruce Richardson ; Honnappa Nagarahalli >> ; dev@dpdk.org; Ananyev, Konstantin >> ; thomas@monjalon.net; Ray Kinsella >> ; nd >> Subject: [EXT] Re: [dpdk-dev] ABI and inline functions >>> I would value ABI compatibility much higher than API compatibility. >>>> If someone is recompiling the application anyway, making a couple of >>>> small changes (large rework is obviously a different issue) to the >>>> code should not be a massive issue, I hope. On the other hand, ABI >>>> compatibility is needed to allow seamless update from one version to >>>> another, and it's that ABI compatiblity that allows distro's to pick up our >> latest and greatest versions. >>> >>> IMO, We have two primary use case for DPDK >>> >>> 1) NFV kind of use case where the application needs to run on multiple >> platform >>> without recompiling it. >>> 2) Fixed appliance use case where embed SoC like Intel Denverton or >>> ARM64 integrated Controller used. For fixed appliance use case, end >>> user care more of performance than ABI compatibility as it easy to >>> recompile the end user application vs the cost of hitting performance impact. >> >> Nobody cares about compatiablity until they have to the first security update. > > For fixed appliance case, The update(FW update) will be a single blob which > Include all the components. So they can back port the security fix and recompile > the sw as needed. > > The very similar category is DPDK running in smart NICs(Runs as FW in PCIe EP device). So is there a real versus a perceived compromise happen here - that we are compromising optimal performance in order to make API stability happen? Do we have specific an examples that this is actually the case? Thanks, Ray K