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From: "Burakov, Anatoly" <anatoly.burakov@intel.com>
To: Jerin Jacob <jerinjacobk@gmail.com>
Cc: Harman Kalra <hkalra@marvell.com>, dpdk-dev <dev@dpdk.org>,
	David Hunt <david.hunt@intel.com>,
	Liang Ma <liang.j.ma@intel.com>,
	Reshma Pattan <reshma.pattan@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [EXT] Re: [PATCH 3/3] l3fwd-power: add interrupt-only mode
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:31:24 +0100
Message-ID: <d3000c49-f225-3fb3-56b3-ad435f2bc646@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALBAE1NmkfbLSzH5ymCeF9YHDHb79LA-JCW3kqexHrfs7-4+ig@mail.gmail.com>

On 15-Jun-20 5:29 PM, Jerin Jacob wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:15 PM Burakov, Anatoly
> <anatoly.burakov@intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 15-Jun-20 4:21 PM, Jerin Jacob wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Burakov, Anatoly
>>> <anatoly.burakov@intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 15-Jun-20 12:43 PM, Jerin Jacob wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:02 PM Burakov, Anatoly
>>>>> <anatoly.burakov@intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02-Jun-20 1:16 PM, Harman Kalra wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 03:53:07PM +0530, Harman Kalra wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 01, 2020 at 01:50:26PM +0100, Burakov, Anatoly wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 30-May-20 11:02 AM, Harman Kalra wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 03:19:45PM +0100, Burakov, Anatoly wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> External Email
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> On 29-May-20 2:19 PM, Harman Kalra wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>            if (ret < 0)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                    rte_exit(EXIT_FAILURE, "Invalid L3FWD parameters\n");
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -       if (app_mode != APP_MODE_TELEMETRY && init_power_library())
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +       if (app_mode == APP_MODE_DEFAULT)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +               app_mode = APP_MODE_LEGACY;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +       /* only legacy and empty poll mode rely on power library */
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +       if ((app_mode == APP_MODE_LEGACY || app_mode == APP_MODE_EMPTY_POLL) &&
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +                       init_power_library())
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                    rte_exit(EXIT_FAILURE, "init_power_library failed\n");
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rather than just exiting from here can we have a else condition to
>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically enter into the "interrupt only" mode.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please correct me if I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your review. I don't think silently proceeding is a good idea. If
>>>>>>>>>>> the user wants interrupt-only mode, they should request it. Silently falling
>>>>>>>>>>> back to interrupt-only mode will create an illusion of successful
>>>>>>>>>>> initialization and set the wrong expectation for how the application will
>>>>>>>>>>> behave.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the explanation which even I also believe is logically perfect.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But since l3fwd-power is an old application and has many users around
>>>>>>>>>> which are currently using this app in interrupt only mode without giving
>>>>>>>>>> an extra argument. But suddenly they will start getting failure messages with
>>>>>>>>>> the new patchset.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My only intent with else condition was backward compatibility.
>>>>>>>>>> Or may be we can have more descriptive failure message, something like
>>>>>>>>>> "init_power_library failed, check manual for other modes".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>> Harman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we can compormise on an informative log message suggesting to use
>>>>>>>>> interrupt mode. I'm not keen on reverting to previous buggy behavior :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not insisting to revert to previous behavior, I am just trying to
>>>>>>>> highlight some probable issues that many users might face as its an old
>>>>>>>> application.
>>>>>>>> Since many arm based soc might not be supporting frequency scaling, can
>>>>>>>> we add the following check as soon as the application starts, probe the
>>>>>>>> platform if it supports frequency scaling, if not automatically set the
>>>>>>>> mode to interrupt mode, something like:
>>>>>>>> if (access("/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor",
>>>>>>>>                         F_OK))
>>>>>>>>         app_mode = APP_MODE_INTERRUPT;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, no direct check in application but we can introduce a new API in
>>>>>>> power library:
>>>>>>>        bool rte_is_freq_scaling() {
>>>>>>>             return  access("/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor",
>>>>>>>                             F_OK);
>>>>>>>        }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and in the application we can use "rte_is_freq_scaling()" at the start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you're suggesting here is effectively what you have already
>>>>>> suggested: silently fall back to interrupt-only mode if power lib init
>>>>>> failed. I already outlined why i don't think it's a good approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is probing "/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor"
>>>>> file presence,
>>>>> detects the power lib availability . Right?  Not the failure. Right?
>>>>> IMO, it make sense to have following case:
>>>>> # first check, Is the system is capable of power lib if so use power lib
>>>>> # if the system is not capable of using power lib use interrupt mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, there is difference between system capable of using power lib
>>>>> vs power lib not available or power lib failure.
>>>>
>>>> I am of the opinion that if a test sets up an unrealistic expectation of
>>>> how an application should behave, it's a problem with the test, not with
>>>> the application.
>>>>
>>>> If the system is not capable of running with power lib - the application
>>>> shouldn't be requested to run in such mode.
>>>
>>> But with this patch, default proposed mode is power lib without any
>>> explicit request.
>>
>> The default has always been "use the power library". That was always the
>> expected behavior, i believe since the very first version of this
>> application. In other words, even if the "requested" behavior is not
>> requested explicitly, it has always been that implicitly, and this patch
>> is *keeping existing behavior*.
> 
> See below,
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "The application behaved that way before" - yes, it did. It was a bug in
>>>> the application, that it allowed users to effectively misuse the
>>>> application and use it despite the fact that it was in a half-working
>>>> state. This problem has been addressed by 1) not allowing the
>>>> application to run in half-working state, and 2) adding a new mode where
>>>> the old "expected" behavior is *actually* expected and is "full working
>>>> state" now.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, all users who were previously misusing the application to do
>>>> something it was not designed to do because of a bug in the
>>>> implementation, should now fix their usage and use the correct mode -
>>>> and such breakage is IMO necessary to call attention to earlier misuse
>>>> in the tools, and to correct this usage.
>>>>
>>>> What bothers me about your suggestion is that it is impossible to fail
>>>> the test if the wrong mode was requested (as in, if we request the
>>>> power-lib mode on a system that doesn't have freq scaling) - it instead
>>>> silently falls back to a mode that is almost guaranteed to work.
>>>
>>> I agree that it should fail, i.e someone explicitly request,
>>> power-lib mode or any mode
>>> and it should fail application if the platform we can not do that.
>>>
>>> My suggestion is all about, what is the default, IMO, if no argument
>>> is specified,
>>> the application should _probe_ the capability of the platfrom and
>>> choose the mode. One can override
>>> the probe to select the desired one. In such mode, fail to configure
>>> the mode should result in
>>> an error.
>>
>> This would change the default behavior that has always existed with this
>> application, and would still be subject to silent failure issue
>> *because* older tests may not account for this implied assumption of
>> "the application will run no matter what", leading to a possible false
>> positive test result.
>>
>> Now, if the default was "not to run and ask explicitly what mode should
>> the user use" - i can see how we could both agree on that. It's not
>> unprecedented - l3fwd itself won't run unless you explicitly specify
>> core config, so we *could* request additional parameters by default. I
>> would've also agreed with the "probe" thing *if it was a new application
>> without any pre-existing usages* - but it isn't, and in this case IMO
>> this is doubly important because there may be tests out there that *rely
>> on a bug* and thus should be explicitly broken and addressed (like the
>> internal test we had that uncovered the issue in the first place).
>>
>> In other words, in the perfect world, i would agree with you :) As it
>> stands though, i think that intentionally breaking tests that are
>> themselves broken and rely on wrong assumptions is more important than
>> keeping them working.
> 
> OK. Let's enumerate the pros and cons of both approaches?
> Approach a: Auto probe
> Approach b: Current patch
> 
> Approach a:
> + Application picks up the mode based on platform capability
> + No change in behavior wrt existing l3fwd-power where the platform
> has only interrupt support.
> (otherwise, It will fail to boot up, the CI etc we need to patch based
> on the DPDK version)
> 
> I am not sure approach b has pros wrt approach a.

The power library has other ways of freq scaling, not just through the 
pstate/ACPI. Now, granted, the third way (KVM) isn't supposed to work on 
l3fwd-power, and is in fact explicitly stopped from working in this 
patch, but still - relying on the scaling governor alone is not good enough.

Perhaps we should add a "check available" API that would probe each of 
the supported modes and return 1 for (potentially) supported and 0 for 
(definitely) unsupported? As far as i know, all three are reliant on 
file access at the end of the day, so we can check if they exist before 
trying to access them. That would effectively be "autodetect" without 
being too specific to ACPI/pstate scaling checks.

> 
> I.e On the x86 platform where freq scaling is present then SHOULD NOT
> have any difference in the approach a vs
> approach b. ie. Auto probe finds the system is capable of freq scaling
> and picks the powerlib. its is win-win case,
> I am not sure, What I am missing?
> 
> 

I was worried that an x86 VM would still have this file without being 
capable of frequency scaling, but i just checked and it seems that VM's 
indeed don't expose the cpufreq filesystem.

-- 
Thanks,
Anatoly

  reply	other threads:[~2020-06-16  9:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-28  9:13 [dpdk-dev] [PATCH 0/3] Add interrupt-only mode to l3fwd-power Anatoly Burakov
2020-05-28  9:13 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH 1/3] l3fwd-power: disable interrupts by default Anatoly Burakov
2020-05-28  9:13 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH 2/3] l3fwd-power: only allow supported power library envs Anatoly Burakov
2020-05-28  9:13 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH 3/3] l3fwd-power: add interrupt-only mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-05-29 13:19   ` Harman Kalra
2020-05-29 14:19     ` Burakov, Anatoly
2020-05-30 10:02       ` [dpdk-dev] [EXT] " Harman Kalra
2020-06-01 12:50         ` Burakov, Anatoly
2020-06-02 10:23           ` Harman Kalra
2020-06-02 12:16             ` Harman Kalra
2020-06-15 11:31               ` Burakov, Anatoly
2020-06-15 11:43                 ` Jerin Jacob
2020-06-15 15:05                   ` Burakov, Anatoly
2020-06-15 15:21                     ` Jerin Jacob
2020-06-15 15:45                       ` Burakov, Anatoly
2020-06-15 16:29                         ` Jerin Jacob
2020-06-16  9:31                           ` Burakov, Anatoly [this message]
2020-06-16 17:09                             ` Jerin Jacob
2020-06-08  1:24 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH 0/3] Add interrupt-only mode to l3fwd-power Wang, Yinan
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 0/7] " Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 " Anatoly Burakov
2020-07-11 11:35     ` Thomas Monjalon
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 1/7] l3fwd-power: disable interrupts by default Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 2/7] l3fwd-power: only allow supported power library envs Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 3/7] l3fwd-power: code style and flow fixes Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 4/7] l3fwd-power: add support for requesting legacy mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 5/7] l3fwd-power: add interrupt-only mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 6/7] power: add API to probe support for a specific env Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19 10:53   ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v3 7/7] l3fwd-power: add auto-selection of default mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-07-11 10:07     ` Thomas Monjalon
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 1/7] l3fwd-power: disable interrupts by default Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 2/7] l3fwd-power: only allow supported power library envs Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 3/7] l3fwd-power: code style and flow fixes Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 4/7] l3fwd-power: add support for requesting legacy mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 5/7] l3fwd-power: add interrupt-only mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 6/7] power: add API to probe support for a specific env Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-18 17:18 ` [dpdk-dev] [PATCH v2 7/7] l3fwd-power: add auto-selection of default mode Anatoly Burakov
2020-06-19  7:37   ` [dpdk-dev] [EXT] " Harman Kalra
2020-06-19  9:56     ` Burakov, Anatoly

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